The Red And The Black

How good is The Red and the Black on a scale of 1-10?

  • Total voters
    18
I've listened to TRATB about 10 times now (start to finish).
At first it didn't get me the same as some of the more immediate songs however there are some great ideas here.
It started out as maybe a 7 but now I would give it a 9.
Have turned the volume on my sound system up to the max and the song really benefits from the extra volume. The rhythm section is really strong and powerful.
 
Liveone it is ok to not like one of Steve's songs. You don't need to force yourself to.
:cheers:
 
Anyone notice the tempo swings a lot on this song? Like they rush a part before the next part starts.

Still, those harmonies at the 9 minute mark or so are my favorite things on this whole album. So good. Makes up for the inferior early vocal lead sections.
 
LooseCannon said:
I don't understand how people find the lengthy instrumental boring. I think it's exceptional. Interesting touches on Maiden's history with some new interesting pieces. I also don't think they should play it live, but that's only because I think it would be not very enjoyable with the long instrumental in a live situation - I hope they play The Book of Souls instead as the album's long song.
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I disagree. There are so many melodies during that part that would be great for a live singalong.
 
Forostar said:
9.39! I agree it's a nice part but it takes a while to get there, doesn't it?
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I love that part, and the instrumental leading up to it. The pirate riff speaks for itself, but the melodic part that follows reminds me of a similar section in "Dance of Death." So much emotion!

The only part of this song that irks me is the "chorus" (when Bruce sings the song's title four times). It's too drawn out and too happy for my tastes.

Still, this is easily my second favorite track on the album.
 
Forostar said:
9.39! I agree it's a nice part but it takes a while to get there, doesn't it?
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Hehe. The last couple of times I've listened to the song, I've found myself impatiently waiting for that part. And as a comparison: Rime of the Ancient Mariner, which is the same length, uses only 7 minutes and 31 seconds to get to the best part :D So again, TRATB is a very good song that wouldn't have been hurt by being a bit shorter. Regardless, I think I will enjoy it a lot live if they choose to play it.
 
The part starting at 9.39 is amazing. I still don't understand the purpose of the rhythm section that comes before it though. I would prefer a new vocal line to transition or just go straight from the solo to the melody. It feels empty as is to me, but it's only for a short while so not a huge deal. Overall, the song has grown on me and is in my top 5 for the album right now.
 
Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
Hehe. The last couple of times I've listened to the song, I've found myself impatiently waiting for that part. And as a comparison: Rime of the Ancient Mariner, which is the same length, uses only 7 minutes and 31 seconds to get to the best part :D So again, TRATB is a very good song that wouldn't have been hurt by being a bit shorter. Regardless, I think I will enjoy it a lot live if they choose to play it.
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I am so double on it. I bet that I'll be headbanging the hardest in the "with vocal"-parts I mentioned earlier. Later I'll get less enthousiastic but probably still have some of that good vibe left. ;-)

These heavy parts, they remind me of this, but then with Bruce doing WAY cooler vocals. Compare:
1
2

Don't get why people are bothered with the lead guitar melody going on at the same time. It's the total that matters: Maiden at their heaviest. So aggressive, so powerful. To hear this live, the venues will shake on their grounds!
 
Forostar said:
Don't get why people are bothered with the lead guitar melody going on at the same time.
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The Siamese twin vocal/guitar verses are a highlight for me. The band is very balanced during this part - 2 melody creators, two crunching guitars and two rhythmic kings driving the song along. And it's not a unique technique for Maiden...think the opening to Run to the Hills.

The instrumental section has clicked and it now flows smoothly all the way to the final transition back to the vocals. As Steve nears the end of his career of writing epics I'd have been happy if he added a further 500 more harmonic riffs into the song. Let's hear as many as he can think up before it all ends..almost like his final salute.
 
Forostar said:
@Detective Beauregard
We're going a bit off topic here but you know what I do not find easy? Who does that melody under Bruce's vocals (during several parts) in The Red and the Black.
At first I thought it was Janick all the time but later I thought of Dave, especially during the Green Manalishi rhythm parts (you know: before we get into the instrumental and The Reeeeed and the Blaaaack parts). The way the guitarist ends every line with some slide of the finger (not sure how to explain it), sounded a bit more like Dave. I like how the guitar continues longer than Bruce. They are not doing the same, at all.
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Detective Beauregard said:
Your guess is as good as mine! I think the first two verses is Janick. The "woah oh" riff between these verses sounds like Dave or Adrian. The third and fourth verses is definitely not the same guitarist as the first two; I'd go with Dave. Doesn't sound like Adrian to me.

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't Adrian usually take a back seat on the Harris epics?

Who plays the chorus theme at 4:58? The riff at 6:30 sounds like Dave. But my biggest question is who is playing the pirate riff at 9:40... sounds like Janick in the high octave, Dave in the lower one, and Adrian on rhythm. Agree?

Edit: Should we move this to the TRATB thread?
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Done. :)

To be honest, I haven't focused much on the later guitar parts because I am not that fond of them, and they are not that recognizable, a bit drenched by the keys as well. Hard to say who does those things. Maybe I should pay more attention when I use my headphones again.
 
Ancient Mariner said:
With every listen I'm more and more convinced that this song is a masterpiece.

It isn't conventional Harris. He has absolutely succeeded in making something slightly different and yet retaining the typical quality of beauty of his songwriting.
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This comment sums up my thoughts. At first, it didn't worked for me ; I mean, I didn't dislike it, but I didn't think anything. After a couple of listenings, I LOVED it. I love the structure. The fact that it ends with a long instrumental section is an absolute bonus, and I see it as the best part of the song and of the whole album. In that respect, it reminds me of To Tame a Land and Seventh Son, my absolute faves. I don't know if this one is going to be high up there with them (the test of time is the only meter), but it could. I would have liked the solos to be shorter (why the hell every song is supposed to have a solo ?), but they are alright. The song flows perfectly and I don't get this "bits and pieces" impression. Anyway, this is how Harris writes most of his songs. Lately, in all his post-reunion songs, I have missed the long instrumental sections, so I'm delighted. The only part that sounds a bit strange to me is the last theme, introduced at precisely 12:00. This bit is not particularly original (Harry has already done several things of that kind) and it sounds as if it could have been anywhere on that song or on others. Anyway, this kind of song is why I love Maiden and worship Harris.
 
:p Do you infer I'm biased when I listen to a song penned by Harris ? Could be :rolleyes:, but I'm enjoying a lot while listening to his stuff. And I'm not particularly fond of the album (yet ?), and this one is one of the very few I really love. But I don't want to give a definitive opinion so early.
 
harrisdevot said:
The only part that sounds a bit strange to me is the last theme, introduced at precisely 12:00.
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It's quite similar to The Unbeliever, only simpler. This is the only part of the song that sounds superfluous to me, I'd prefer if it only appeared once (as a transition, with no drums and bass)
 
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