The Red And The Black

How good is The Red and the Black on a scale of 1-10?

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    22
Actually....these days I'm preferring The Red and the Black instrumental section to The Book of Souls, even if it's fairly standard Maiden stuff - if you want to look at it that way - stretched out for a long time. To me it feels like it has more of a sense of purpose. I was left with more of an 'insert stuff here' impression in the second half of TBOS.
 
The more I listen to that song, the less I think it would work live because of that strange tempo changes... It will take a hell of a rehearsals to perfect those, because they are pretty free-form. And I would rather have two rarely played classics (or Empire, but won't happen) than that song. Again I like the parts of the instrumental, but the path to there is too long.
 
I think the track is decent, but a failure in structure. And despite it's length it is, to me, devoid of energy, direction, lyrical-interest, and is musically prolix. It's just okay, in a sea of better tracks.
 
I've been lurking around here and enjoying the conversations for about a month now. Finally decided to make an account and participate.

I'm having a hard time making up my mind on TRATB. I love all the melodies and have caught myself humming them later several times. What leaves me unimpressed by the song though, is the lack of a central idea that would keep all the different parts together, put them in a single context, and allow me to connect with the song. In most previous Maiden epics, lyrics have always played an important role in providing that unifying context for me, but with TRATB, I have absolutely no idea what Steve is even talking about. I think I will enjoy the song much more if I have some understanding of what it is trying to say. So what do you guys think about the lyrics?
 
Well, I think it is related to gambling,isn't it? However I think it would have been betrer as an instrumental.
 
Gk1 said:
Well, I think it is related to gambling,isn't it? However I think it would have been betrer as an instrumental.
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There are references to gambling but I'm not sure if he is actually talking about gambling.
 
I need to put more thought into it, but he is more talking about luck and chance.
 
It's extremely ambitious, and you gotta admire that. It's Steve Harris: The Song, like someone said earlier in this thread. This song seems to be about everything Maiden ever did. Like I said, it's ambitious. It takes balls to write a 13 minute song with so many different ideas crammed in. But the musical talent these guys possess makes it work.
 
10/10. My 2nd favorite song on The Book Of Souls! A strong 10 too!
1st, I can't believe the amount of negative comments about this song! Wow! I had been under the impression that this was many fans favorite song on the album. I've seen people say they rate it 4/10, Steve just pasted bad parts together, this is Maiden's worst epic...
Anyway, I've really been enjoying this one (as I have the full album) since it was released. This has pretty much been my 2nd favorite song off the album since it was released after Empire Of The Clouds and followed closely by The Book Of Souls so the 3 longest songs all over 10 minutes are my favorites. The only thing that I don't like about the song is the "woah-woah.." sections, especially the one at the end. On the other hand I really like a lot of stuff in it. I like the very long instrumental section for the last half of the song similar to Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son (as far as having an extra long instrumental part for the last half of the song), but like I said I specifically dislike the "woah" before the end. I really like the bass intro/outro, and I think it works well with the song. I really like this one! I can't believe how many fans here dislike this song!
 
I am afraid I'm of the mind that it's a structural disaster. I quite like most of the bits but the way they are assembled makes me sad. I don't even feel like it is an epic, it's just a very long song...
 
The song does not change gears often and maintains a similar tempo throughout. It drives forwards with many different riffs and is deemed disjointed by lots of listeners. Well I equate this song to the latest Mad Max film "Fury Road" which never changes gears, motors along with various bizarre happenings that may seem disjointed and feels like one long exhausting scene. But is an absolute classic piece of art. And so is The Red And The Black.

The image I have during the single chorus and subsequent marathon instrumental passage is of Fortuna (the god of luck) flying over the world looking down on the lives of the fortunate and the strugglers.
 
Poto said:
It's extremely ambitious, and you gotta admire that. It's Steve Harris: The Song, like someone said earlier in this thread. This song seems to be about everything Maiden ever did. Like I said, it's ambitious. It takes balls to write a 13 minute song with so many different ideas crammed in. But the musical talent these guys possess makes it work.
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How is a song extremely ambitious when there are not many changes (mood, rhythm, chord progressions) in such a lengthy timeframe? Is that ambitious itself?
Certainly, this song does not respresent everything Maiden ever did.
 
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My opinion keeps changing on this one.

To me it feels longer than empire of the clouds and there are a lot of sections that feel dragged on and didn't need to be repeated so much. And as great as Adrians 2nd solo is, it feels like it doesn't need to be there. I also feel that the bass outro and intro don't add to the song, and the first guitar riff. It would be fine if it started with the gallop.

Even though I know its not the case, it feels like Steve was trying to make the song as long as possible just for the sake of making a really long song. This song could easily be condensed down in 7-8 minutes and be a real classic.
 
Forostar said:
How is a song extremely ambitious when there are not many changes (mood, rhythm, chord progressions) in such a lengthy timeframe? Is that ambitious itself?
Certainly, this song does not respresent everything Maiden ever did.
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Fair enough, it might not represent everything Maiden ever did. But it has a lot of familiar elements. I've seen people compare it to Phantom, Rime, Dance of Death. It has Maiden and Steve Harris written all over it.
 
After all my good will I must agree that this is structural chaos, thos guitars under vocals takes away all the heaviness, gives accent to Bruce strained vocals, riffs without fluid and intuitive conection, maybe this would work as instrumental with a little work on the 2nd part of the song.
 
I just went through it on my way home....or at least I tried to go through it. Having said that the part after the - obviously repeated for a whole minute chorus - is not bad at all...in my opinion actually. Thanks to audacity a miracle is about to happen.
 
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