TBOS Predictions

[SixesAlltheway]

Meaning that IMO BNW had a very quickly-put-together vibe to me. While in the last two albums there is quite a bit more texture and craftsmanship....or something. I don't see why this is not to happen on TBOS

Well this couldn't be more further from the truth really. Brave New World as an album stretches all the way back to the end of the Virtual 11 sessions and was worked upon since then really all the way through the 99 Ed Hunter Tour .Also this was the first time the band ever worked with Shirley so recording took longer. The last two albums were, on the other hand, very quickly put together and very quickly recorded live in the studio too...

 

[CriedWhenBrucieLeft]

Because, in my opinion, the music (and methods and songwriting) didn't change much. So if someone loved that, they were not very challenged because it didn't change much.

I'm struggling to grasp what you're getting at here. Are you saying the post-reunion albums were all written in the same manner, therefore all sound the same? To me, the end product, the albums (which is what these fans you refer to are listening to) of the post-reunion years have been fairly different sounding, irrespective of how Maiden approached these from a songwriting perspective. You don't agree with this? (Do you feel that those satisfied with BNW naturally liked DoD & so-on? That the transition between these albums has been quite smooth?)

 

[bornless1]

Dance of death to me sounds the absolute MOST thought out and for the life of me I cannot understand a contrary opinion.
The songs labeled as filler in this forum are excellent. It is the single biggest head scratcher that DOD isn't more respected.

 

[bornless1]

Exciting prediction/comparison here earlier of Book of Souls (song) and DAnce of Death (song). DOD the song magnificently nails the mood of the Dance macabre reneseance theme. Hoping BOS has the same success.

 

[Gk1]

Well this couldn't be more further from the truth really. Brave New World as an album stretches all the way back to the end of the Virtual 11 sessions and was worked upon since then really all the way through the 99 Ed Hunter Tour .Also this was the first time the band ever worked with Shirley so recording took longer. The last two albums were, on the other hand, very quickly put together and very quickly recorded live in the studio too...

I just find that the last two albums are more layered than BNW and DOD. It doesn't mean that BNW is more thought out cause it took more time to record. They had more time to work on it but it doesn't mean that they actually did work more on it. H is contributing quite heavily lately.His guitar work seems to be quite sophisticated as apposed to the simplest usage of the 3 guitars that most of the compositions in BNW had.

 

[Gk1]

Dance of death to me sounds the absolute MOST thought out and for the life of me I cannot understand a contrary opinion.
The songs labeled as filler in this forum are excellent. It is the single biggest head scratcher that DOD isn't more respected.

DOD is more layered than BNW but is doesn't really contain a moment like e.g. The legacy or Starblind.

 

[Maturin]

I just find that the last two albums are more layered than BNW and DOD. It doesn't mean that BNW is more thought out cause it took more time to record. They had more time to work on it but it doesn't mean that they actually did work more on it. H is contributing quite heavily lately.His guitar work seems to be quite sophisticated as apposed to the simplest usage of the 3 guitars that most of the compositions in BNW had.

You can' be listening very closely then. There's a huge amount of added vocal and guitar harmonies on Brave New World, not to mention the keyboards. It's densely layered. Bruce sings harmonies to himself on basically every song. The Final Frontier on the other hand has a single (rough) vocal track all the way through (with the exception of a short harmony in the acoustic part of "The Talisman").

 

[Mosh]

And that one harmony is the worst part of the whole song IMO. It should've all been one vocal track.

 

[Forostar]

I'm struggling to grasp what you're getting at here.

I'll give it a try.

Are you saying the post-reunion albums were all written in the same manner, therefore all sound the same?

Not literally the same. But more samish. I hope (and think) that the next will be a bigger departure from the previous works, bigger than any of the last four albums differ from each other. For some reason people are not going into this perspective in this discussion. E.g. @bornless1 and @mckindog.

To me, the end product, the albums (which is what these fans you refer to are listening to) of the post-reunion years have been fairly different sounding, irrespective of how Maiden approached these from a songwriting perspective. You don't agree with this?

The production made them sound different, and some songs had a new approach. But most others had not. So, if we want a black and white answer: I disagree.

(Do you feel that those satisfied with BNW naturally liked DoD & so-on?

My whole point was directed at people who loved all (or most of) these albums very much. I am not one of these people. Dance of Death is one of my least favourite albums. Just read my reviews on No More Lies, Face in the Sand, Wildest Dreams. The repetition of passages, recycling (unoriginality), monotonousness, crappy vocal melodies, or predictability puts me off. This criticism also goes for songs from other albums, especially Brave New World and The Final Frontier. E.g. OOTSP, The Thin Line, The Talisman and even WTWWB. A Matter of Life and Death suffers from some dragging choruses but as a whole product it feels more original. Still, I do not think this album differs more from the other three than the next one could.

Then again, there are many people who love the songs I just mentioned. I'd even say: they love these aspects. They have no probem with them at least. That's why I wonder how these people will react to more different material. Perhaps you wonder if -or even deny(!) that- this will be the case:

Will The Book of Souls really be more different?

Fair enough. But dare we look into the what if question?

A bit more on the aspects: I see these as "21st century Stevized"-aspects. I suspect Steve from being responsible for the things I do not like in songs. Now we'll have a big chunk without Steve and the way people wrote in duos or alone can really have a different outcome. The vibe was more different and so were the methods.

That the transition between these albums has been quite smooth?)

I don't think there was much of a transition. Again: not as much as compared to what I'm expecting from the next album. Dance of Death is probably the least popular album, but most others might like it less for other reasons than the ones I have stated.

So, we're reaching the end of this post, but not just yet. I suspect that several people disagree with what I wrote above.

However...

-and we have no palantír, so we don't know what will happen-

... would any of you like the new album to be more different from what we've had in the last 15 years?

 

[Bombusbombus]

I'm pretty excited over the prospect of not having Steves hand in all the songs, much for the same reasons you gave above. Even though I don't have as much of a problem with it as you seem to have it will feel a bit fresh and be interesting for sure. I'm just a little bit worried that they will be getting to soft in a way I won't really like, I can imagine a "reach out" with a looong keyboardpart in the middle or something. i wouldn''t like that....

 

[mckindog]

I'll give it a try.

Not literally the same. But more samish. I hope (and think) that the next will be a bigger departure from the previous works, bigger than any of the last four albums differ from each other. For some reason people are not going into this perspective in this discussion. E.g. @bornless1 and @mckindog.

The production made them sound different, and some songs had a new approach. But most others had not. So, if we want a black and white answer: I disagree.

My whole point was directed at people who loved all (or most of) these albums very much. I am not one of these people. Dance of Death is one of my least favourite albums. Just read my reviews on No More Lies, Face in the Sand, Wildest Dreams. The repetition of passages, recycling (unoriginality), monotonousness, crappy vocal melodies, or predictability puts me off. This criticism also goes for songs from other albums, especially Brave New World and The Final Frontier. E.g. OOTSP, The Thin Line, The Talisman and even WTWWB. A Matter of Life and Death suffers from some dragging choruses but as a whole product it feels more original. Still, I do not think this album differs more from the other three than the next one could.

Then again, there are many people who love the songs I just mentioned. I'd even say: they love these aspects. They have no probem with them at least. That's why I wonder how these people will react to more different material. Perhaps you wonder if -or even deny(!) that- this will be the case:

Will The Book of Souls really be more different?

Fair enough. But dare we look into the what if question?

A bit more on the aspects: I see these as "21st century Stevized"-aspects. I suspect Steve from being responsible for the things I do not like in songs. Now we'll have a big chunk without Steve and the way people wrote in duos or alone can really have a different outcome. The vibe was more different and so were the methods.

I don't think there was much of a transition. Again: not as much as compared to what I'm expecting from the next album. Dance of Death is probably the least popular album, but most others might like it less for other reasons than the ones I have stated.

So, we're reaching the end of this post, but not just yet. I suspect that several people disagree with what I wrote above.

However...

-and we have no palantír, so we don't know what will happen-

... would any of you like the new album to be more different from what we've had in the last 15 years?

Foro, my comment was not directed at my expectations for the album itself, but rather to your expectations of it.

From reading you posts of the past year or two, I would say you are generally disappointed with the inability of your favourite band to surprise you this century and you desperately want this album to do that.

It's my position that while the band has evolved, it has happened slowly and I am not sure, after 35 years, we should expect them to do anything "dramatic." The only dramatic change they have ever done in my mind was FoD to X Factor which was fuelled by Steve's personal crises coinciding with the arrival of Blaze. Nothing like that has happened for TBoS.

It seems your dissatisfaction stems largely from Steve's 21st-century songwriting and arrangements and your hope for TBoS is that he may have less of a presence. The songwriting credits give evidence to support that, but I just wanted to caution you about clinging to that like a life preserver.

It is Iron Maiden album: inevitably, it will have Steve's fingerprints all over it.

I will post my answer to your bolded question later.

 

[CriedWhenBrucieLeft]

... would any of you like the new album to be more different from what we've had in the last 15 years?

Yes.

 

[Perun]

... would any of you like the new album to be more different from what we've had in the last 15 years?

I want it to be good. I want it to give me music that has meaning to me and will enable me to associate great memories with. I want to be able to lean back, close my eyes and listen to what the band is telling me in music and lyrics. So far, every album Maiden have released did this for me, and that's what I want this one to do. If it does that, I couldn't care less how 'different' it is.

 

[The Flash]

I always prefer to hear something different when it comes to new albums, no matter which artist. Bottom line still is whether it's good or not, though.

 

[bornless1]

Beautifully put perun. It is the anticipation of the feelings and emotions that come with the music. If you aren't moved by the album, it is worthless.
And the "different" part is important: A whole new bunch of songs that will bring a brand new set of experience for the seances.

 

[Gk1]

You can' be listening very closely then. There's a huge amount of added vocal and guitar harmonies on Brave New World, not to mention the keyboards. It's densely layered. Bruce sings harmonies to himself on basically every song. The Final Frontier on the other hand has a single (rough) vocal track all the way through (with the exception of a short harmony in the acoustic part of "The Talisman").

Well,I was talking about the arrangements/structures of the songs. Meaning that the songs don't sound that well thought out. The three guitars,although audible they do not play anything special. I mean what is the point to occupy 3 guitarists if you only have Jan play the vocal melody in some songs.Or even worse why do you need 3 guitars if you harmonise for 1-2 minutes in a 67 minute album?! At least TFF had good guitar work.The seemto have put some effort in composing this time around. BNW was full of chord progressions while TFF has got some damn good riffs for that matter,even though there are not that ma y harmo ies.As for the harmonies themselves I don't get why they do not use them so much anymore.All of ghe sudden while recording ATSS they took most of the harmonies out and they stuck to thag since then.The single guitar melodies are driving me crazy,what a waste for the guitarists.

 

[The Mid-Distance Runner]

AMOLAD is overflowing with fabulous harmonies - These Colours Don't Run, The Longest Day, The Reincarnation of Benjamin Breeg, FTGGoG, The Legacy.

 

[Gk1]

Dear Runner,
If there is an album overflowing with harmonies it would be either SIT or Powerslave. AMOLAD is doing a much better use of the three guitars compared to BNW. However beating BNW in this respect is not a hard task.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Dear Runner,
If there is an album overflowing with harmonies it would be either SIT or Powerslave. AMOLAD is doing a much better use of the three guitars compared to BNW. However beating BNW in this respect is not a hard task.

Which is why Powerslave is my favourite Maiden album (shared with Seventh Son).

On topic: I think the fact that more songs are without a Harris credit this time around, means that the songs will be more diverse with respect to the points that have been discussed in the last few posts.

 

[mckindog]

... would any of you like the new album to be more different from what we've had in the last 15 years?

I need state up top, very strongly that I am not part of the anti-Steve brigade. I do not think ATSS, No More Lies and Wild Wind are the same song any more than The Trooper and The Evil That Men Do are the same song. I'm a big fan of all five.

With that out of the way, the answer to your question is, ideally, yes, I would like it to be different.
It's just that "Different" is tough to define.

Justin Beiber is different and most of us ain't going to be happy if TBoS sounds like Beebs. So it has to be different in the context of still supplying what we love about Maiden.

Within that context, we've seen two kinds of different: a difference in overall album character where all the songs have a certain sound and tone that binds them and sets them apart, like TXF and SIT; and a difference from song-to-song within the album, where there is a lot of variety, like TFF and FOTD.

With the former, you inevitably get more duds and homeruns (think Turbo and Painkiller). The latter more often falls somewhere in between.

Modern Maiden has been more of the latter than the former. I think that's to be expected when you have four good songwriters. Steve gets flak for putting too much of him into every song. Maybe the opposite is true, maybe our fearless leader has gotten soft, and has been too accommodating. Maybe in the TFF sessions he should have punted everything that wasn't Avalon and Starblind and tried to make the rest of the album fit that mould.

I am pretty sure I would have loved that album and I will be happy if that's the sort of approach they take to the new one.

But I don't think Maiden works that way anymore.

The fact that Steve has removed himself completely from some tracks leads me to believe TBoS will be even less focused. Double albums typically have an eclectic mix and I believe that will be the case here.

I expect a couple songs to forge new ground and have particular high hopes for Bruce's opener and closer. Maybe Adrian brought some ideas back from Awoken Broken. Maybe British Lion loosened Steve's tie about what is appropriate for Maiden. Maybe it will be up to Jan to salvage any hopes for the Play Classics crowd.

But by and large they are going to write "Iron Maiden" songs for an Iron Maiden album. It's just what they do.
And that's OK by me too.

As Perun said very well, all I really want is for it to be good.
And for it to be good, it doesn't necessarily have to fit into any kind of preconceived box.
I'm just going to sit back and hope it moves me.