Your Maiden blasphemy

"Sloppiness" is a matter of opinion. Your using of it to back up why you dislike something is what's bothering, and we're trying to say that it's not as objective as you want to believe. Just say you dislike it and move on. I'm not a fan of Di'Anno and have a score of issues with him but I understand why people think he's a great singer. Music is subjective, and what sounds sloppy to you may not be to someone else. What sounds sloppy to me may not to someone else. I'm not right and you're not right, but we're also not wrong either. If you think it's sloppy, fine, but I don't.
 
Diesel 11 said:
"Sloppiness" is a matter of opinion. [...]
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So much of what you’re saying here is fundamentally wrong, and I really don’t see the point in taking it apart piece by piece and pointing out your self-contradictions when you’re clearly not ready to hear an opposing point of view on this topic.

“Good” or “bad” is a matter of opinion. Performing in or out of key, or staying on rhythm, or doing any other objectively measurable thing is not a matter of opinion, no matter how much you might want it to be. It’s whether those objective elements bother you or not that’s a matter of opinion.
Just say you dislike it and move on.
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No, I’ll say whatever I like, thanks.
 
I don't need to make myself feel better. I fully accept that "Judgement of Heaven" is not the most in-key song out there, Knick's analysis showed that. I can accept when I'm wrong, so just tell me straight - how is sloppiness proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and not merely in the ears of the listener?
 
As a diplomatic solution, I'd say that Janick undoubtedly has much looser style to play in studio too and even there he isn't quite as precise as the others. So maybe loose playing is a tad bit more appropriate definition for Janick's work in studio, since he's, as Bruce has stated back in the day, often "on the edge" and yes, maybe occasionally "sloppy" too, but at least it's much more deliberate and controlled in studio.

Anyway, I think that Jer has a fair point, but as Diesel indicated, there's always a bit of a debate when it comes to definition of sloppines in this case... :p
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
Point still stands: it's not fair to single out Janick.
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Sorry, but I gotta single him out.

I know they kept him because does contribute in the songwriting department.

Of course Maiden is tighter in the studio than live. All of them.

On stage, Nicko stays pretty true on the overall big picture, but does a million little different rolls and fillers live. but they're not bad for the songs.

My beef with Yanny is he seems to put more effort into his vaudeville act than his guitar work when he's on stage, and it IS bad for the songs when his stuff sounds muddled and sloppy.

It doesn't take a genius to know he's over compensating.

Sure, they all have moments when they goof around, but the other 5 combined don't add up to what he does.

I mean, c'mon, Yanick.... Iron Maiden is still selling out stadiums 40 years down the road. They're Metal Royalty.

And yet, night after night, while you're up there rubbing shoulders with the hierarchy of metal, you seem more concerned with your dog and pony show guitar spinning and little tricks and whatnot than what you sound like. It's embarrassing, dude.

If not for yourself, have some respect for the guys you're on stage with.
 
Daedalus said:
It doesn't take a genius to know he's over compensating.
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For what, exactly? He's in no way lacking in ability. Have you heard his work with White Spirit? Or Gillan? Have you heard the song he did with Fish? Do you have the faintest idea how well-regarded he has been by everyone who has worked with him right down the line?

Anyone who has a problem with Janick on stage should have a problem with Bruce as well, since tormenting Janick has been a significant part of his performance. Draping a flag over him, grabbing his head or pulling off his shoe - if he meddled with Adrian like that it would mess him up for the rest of the show. Janick just keeps playing. And this is one of the reasons I'm so in awe of him: he seems to play by instinct, as though he's somehow mentally connected to his instrument. You may call it sloppy - I call it intuitive and inspiring.
 
I strongly disagree with the hate for Jan but this
Black Abyss Babe said:
if he meddled with Adrian like that it would mess him up for the rest of the show.
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is also not true. Bruce has "meddled" with Adrian frequently enough in the past, especially during Wasted Years or during solos. I don't think it has bothered him or messed him up.
 
Black Abyss Babe said:
For what, exactly? He's in no way lacking in ability. Have you heard his work with White Spirit? Or Gillan? Have you heard the song he did with Fish? Do you have the faintest idea how well-regarded he has been by everyone who has worked with him right down the line?

Anyone who has a problem with Janick on stage should have a problem with Bruce as well, since tormenting Janick has been a significant part of his performance. Draping a flag over him, grabbing his head or pulling off his shoe - if he meddled with Adrian like that it would mess him up for the rest of the show. Janick just keeps playing. And this is one of the reasons I'm so in awe of him: he seems to play by instinct, as though he's somehow mentally connected to his instrument. You may call it sloppy - I call it intuitive and inspiring.
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No, I have not heard his work with White Spirit.
No, I have not heard his work with Gillan.
No, I have not heard his song with Fish.
No, I don't have the faintest idea how well regarded he has been with everyone who has worked with him right down the line.

But then again, I never said a single thing about any of his work outside Maiden, did I?

I guess that's why my comments about the man were kept in the parameters of what I've heard.

I also guess that's why I'm not 'in awe' of him.

Besides, I never said the guy was lacking in ability. I never said he was a bad guitarist. I said he was sloppy live.

I also said he seems to be more concerned with his shtick than anything else. Like his guitar is a prop, not an instrument.

And yes, I do have a problem with the way Bruce tortures Yanick on stage. He antagonizes all of them at times, to different degrees, but he goes waaayyy over the line with Yanick.
 
Daedalus said:
And yet, night after night, while you're up there rubbing shoulders with the hierarchy of metal, you seem more concerned with your dog and pony show guitar spinning and little tricks and whatnot than what you sound like.
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Why are you framing it like this though? i.e. Janick is one thing & the rest of the band is something else, "royalty". He's not just some bit-part of Maiden.
 
This is the blasphemy thread after all.

Didn’t Bruce occasionally pick up a guitar during shows back in the 80’s? That proves that two guitars aren’t always enough for Maiden.

 
Saphrax said:
That proves that two guitars aren’t always enough for Maiden.
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I do believe that one of the very early incarnations of Maiden had three guitar players too. I think it was always in Steve's mind to have three, apparently he said so to Bruce when Bruce returned to Maiden.
 
Saphrax said:
This is the blasphemy thread after all.

Didn’t Bruce occasionally pick up a guitar during shows back in the 80’s? That proves that two guitars aren’t always enough for Maiden.

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This is not a good example. Bruce ended up in blood when he did not take the guitar seriously. :)
 
Black Abyss Babe said:
Anyone who has a problem with Janick on stage should have a problem with Bruce as well
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I'm pretty useless in debates about guitar, but I can expand upon this.

Bruce also sometimes sacrifices the quality of the vocals themselves in favour of stage presence, a notable example being in Fear of the Dark. Up until recently he seemed to attempt to cover every square inch of the stage in 5 minutes and it often left the verse sounding out of breath and rushed, but despite this i find the performance greatly enhanced by seeing him sprinting round the back of the stage and flying over monitors. Most often when Bruce is being praised as a frontman the amount of ground he covers and energy he expends on stage is brought up as a key factor, regardless of whether it occasionally hampers his vocals themselves.

Obviously you can counter this by mentioning things like the fact that, in En Vivo he stayed largely stock still during a challenging song like The Talisman to make the vocals less tough, but it's still a worthy point.
 
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