What's the matter with FOTD?

I always thought of ATSS and Age of Innocence as being in-character. ATSS in particular has a stream of consciousness feel.
 
People always shit on NPFTD, but FoTD doesn't get shit on anywhere near as much.

XFactor, Virtual XI and NPFTD are all infinitely better than FoTD.
 
frus said:
You're kidding, right
They are one of the best actually
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Nope, they actually justify the U.S first attack in Iraq that eventually led to the U.S occupying most of the middle east . Sadam , the U.S ally during the Iraq/Iran war in the eighties , had "a reign of terror, corruption that must end and deep down we know there's no other way (than to destroy the whole of Iraq and eventually the whole of middle east i say) " . Tailor-made flag waving crap for the americans .
 
LooseCannon said:
You are aware that Gulf War 1 doesn't really have anything to do with Gulf War 2, right?
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It actually does . They were stripping Iraq off its military forces for 12 years and then made the attack , in Gulf war 2, with no justification whatsoever , the infamous chemical weapons of Sadam . They were fighting the islaming terror by attacking a country that had an anti-islamic regime !!! Bush father, Bush son . But "the reign of terror , corruption must end and we know deep down there's no other way " , this shit reminds me Annihilator's "set the world on fire " song that came at a similar time . Also reminds me of the movie "American sniper" which glorified a madman but it was an "anti-war" movie according to Eastwood . What i hate most about ATSS is its hypocrisy . Compare it with something like "2 minutes to midnight" and it's night and day .
 
johnglen said:
It actually does .
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Not intentionally. Bush 43 was an accident of politics, not an intentional succession designed to conquer Iraq. Gulf War 2 was a terrible war crime committed by a bunch of people who got a second chance to take on Saddam because the kid was an idiot. But none of it would have happened if Saddam didn't invade and conquer an American ally in Kuwait.
 
I don't think ATSS is glorifying anything. It makes a lot more sense as the inner thoughts of a soldier, musing over the reasons for being there, justifying to himself the reasons for killing. It's an internal conflict in that person's mind, not Maiden saying the reasons are justified.

Although there's a suggestion Age of Innocence is more personal to Steve, I think something similar is happening here: in this case stepping into the shoes of a Mr Angry who wants to set the world to rights, lashing out at perceived injustice, looking back with nostalgia on a supposed golden age of innocence. Dance of Death is full of this retrospect.
 
Spot on.

I can't believe that anyone thinks ATSS is actually written in direct support of the Gulf War. It's like saying Slayer's Angel of Death is glorifying Josef Mengele or Master of Puppets is glorifying heroin.
 
Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
Spot on.

I can't believe that anyone thinks ATSS is actually written in direct support of the Gulf War. It's like saying Slayer's Angel of Death is glorifying Josef Mengele or Master of Puppets is glorifying heroin.
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"Angel of Death " doesn't say that "deep down there's no other way" for Mengele's actions . "Master of Puppets" is a pussy song by a pussy band that understood exactly what teenage americans wanted to listen to , harmless "anti-war" crap . Most metal bands don't have the balls to write true anti-system lyrics , dangerous lyrics that might encourage some young people to search some things . You know what i consider ballsy lyrics ? Sacred Reich's "Death squad" that refers to the extremely violent coups that the U.S had enforced in , almost , all the latin america countries or "Surf Nicaragua" . Why should we have a ton of songs about the poor american soldiers that murder thousands of people in countries far away (Metallica were experts in this , no surprise that they reached the mainstream in the U.S ) from the U.S and not a song about what a Palestinian has to endure each day ?

It is my opinion that ATSS was Maiden's answer to Metallica , only worse and it is pure hypocrisy . Compare this to the beauty of songs like "the trooper", "2 minutes to midnight" , "paschendale" (friend and foe will meet again, those who died in Paschendale ) .

Anyway (and this is my last post in this thread , never intended to make so much "noise" since many have criticised ATSS lyrics from time to time ) the NPFTD/FOTD period was a travesty for Iron Maiden .
 
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johnglen said:
But "the reign of terror , corruption must end and we know deep down there's no other way "
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I don't think you got the intention of the song right

The guy in the desert is having an internal conflict and is tossing and turning in his bed because he has doubts about whether he is doing the right thing. Whether the ones that have sent him there maybe have other motives than what they told them ("when it comes to the time, are we partners in crime"). Whether they should just live and let live (and leave). Sadly, the brainwashing (or "training") he received wins in the end (the "reign of terror" part that you find offensive), and he steels himself and brushes off his doubts. He even uses the collective "we" ("we know deep down there's no other way") - a clear sign of just parroting someone else's words.

I agree with the others that it doesn't feel like the author is taking any "side", it's written completely from the point of view of the soldier in question. And written really really well in my opinion.

It's like saying that the song that contains lyrics "I have the fire, I have the force, I have the power to make my evil take its course" is glorifying Satan. It may seem so if taken out of context, but it's not that song's intention either

Btw I don't like the album as a whole either, like the Black Album you're comparing it to it has more weak songs that good ones, but ATSS really is a gem
 
To me, ATSS is just like loads of other Maiden songs..... putting the listener in the shoes of a character for a short while.

It is not taking sides at all, no more than Marillion's "Gaza" is taking sides (stunning song btw) .... but just examining a viewpoint of a person in a certain situation.
 
I never thought ATSS was supporting war... It's the first time I see this kind opinion. Like it was already said, the song is trying to put you inside the tortured mind of a soldier who is about to do horrible things that he isn't sure it's right. Anyway, back on topic...

I think this album gets more hate than it deserves. It's not their best, but it deserves more credit. Be Quick or Be Dead is one of the best Maiden openers. People complain about the silly lyrics on From Here To Eternity, but why be serious all the time? This song is great and it has one of the best solos section on the album. I LOVE Janick's solo on this song.

Words are not enough to describe how beautiful is the instrumental section on ATSS. Wasting Love was one of the first Maiden songs I heard and it actually draw me even more to their music. I watched their perfomance of this song at Donington on youtube and thought: "That's it. I'm addicted." The title song is awesome, I'll never get tired of it and I think I would be one of the few people to get a bit upset if they take it out off the live set, but this may be because I never went to a Maiden concert.

I won't write about all the songs, but with the exception of Weekend Warrior, the rest are all great. My problem with Weekend Warrior is the lyrics. I can often ignore silly lyrics if the music is good, but in this case I can't. The reason is maybe because I hate football, so I think this can affect my opinion about the song.
 
And - I must ask - does it really matter whether you really absolutely politically agree with 'Arry? Neither of those songs goes overboard, even if they're sincere (which at least ATSS is not, IMHO) and it's not like Maiden are really a political band. Mustaine's right wing now too these days, isn't he? I just don't see what's the fuss about. In fact, with AoI I don't get the criticism at all. ATSS is beautiful, as far as the chorus-middle part-chorus is concerned. That's what interests me, primarily.
It's not like 'Arry became Ted Nugent overnight, right?
 
JudasMyGuide said:
it's not like Maiden are really a political band.
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That's right. On the same subject, I understand that in Deep Purple, they get along well with musicians endorsing (not publicly) very different ideas as far as politics are concerned (it was said in an interview though I don't remember exactly who said that...possibly Roger Glover). Thus I wonder what each musician's political affinities are... (besides, Steve Morse is American and the others English. Having to study both countries' history and politics, they really differ in terms of original ideology)

Back on topic: although FOTD may have more fillers than other albums in terms of number of songs (which are short in average on that album), one can nuance the notion of "filler", which can also deal with songs that are stretched out and appear "too fat" though their "skeletons" are enjoyable (The X Factor and AMOLAD come to mind in particular).

Consequently, whether you are used to skipping songs or not makes a big difference, as well the media you use to listen to them, in appreciating an album as a whole: playing numeric audio files and tinkering with the cursor yields a different appreciation of the same songs from listening to them on physical media.

Interestingly enough, FOTD was the last album to be released at a time when listening to music on non-material media was still very rare or even unheard of. It seems that, in those days, the record companies (those promoting hard rock at least) tended to make the most of the CD as a physical support: for instance, FOTD (1992), but also Ozzy's No More Tears (1991; that intro to "Zombie Stomp" is a good definition for "filler", though I like the song itself) and Scorpions's Face the Heat (1993) are significant of that tendency, that is releasing an album with really strong songs (basically, for Maiden, those that were played live and that I still enjoy a lot) but not managing to keep the same level -of intensity and/or of quality- throughout the record.
 
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It was my first IM album so I'll always look at it through rose tinted glasses. Production isn't great though now I look back.

I think Black Bart has a point about it being released at a time where CD's were pushing album track lists to get longer. If you cut a few songs to get a 'classic' 8 song Maiden album I think it's looks a LOT stronger:

Be Quick Or Be Dead 3:24
Afraid To Shoot Strangers 6:56
Childhood's End 4:40
Wasting Love 5:50
The Fugitive 4:54
Chains Of Misery 3:37
Judas Be My Guide 3:08
Fear Of The Dark 7:16

(I really like Chains Of Misery)
 
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