The Israel-Palestine Conflict

NigelTufnel said:
Please elaborate. In what way?
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Come on, you know what I mean. You said earlier:

But giving the scenario you put fort to me, if the USA fired rockets into Canada in an unprovoked attack, I would expect the mililtary forces in Canada to respond in the strongest possible manner. I will give you an even better one than that. If New Jersey somehow attacked New York, I would expect New York to go kick New Jersey's ass.

This is exactly what your fellow American is talking about. He said:

"I am dismayed by the rhetoric from US politicians and pundits to the effect that “if the US were under rocket attack from Mexico or Canada, we would respond like the Israelis”. This a gross insult to US servicemen; I can assure you that we would NOT respond like the Israelis."

Here you go.
 
NigelTufnel said:
That sounds a little antisemitic.
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I'm pissed off for the endless support that US provide to Israel but I'm not antisemit
and I didn't like to hear that from you, just because I tried to find the reason why (about this support)

the reason is allways the money, can't be something else
 
it's a cliché already, but I don't find it anti or pro
there's many antisemites that use this cliché -but also many people that are not racists use it
because it's the only reasonable explanation

but the response "this is anti-semit" isn't it a cliché as well* ?? what to discuss after

*even Naom Tsomski has been accoused for being anti-semite because he was saying things that hurt...
 
I don't care for Chomski in the slightest, but I also don't think it's wrong to say that large Jewish organizations support both political parties financially - because it's true, they do.
 
LooseCannon said:
I don't care for Chomski in the slightest, but I also don't think it's wrong to say that large Jewish organizations support both political parties financially - because it's true, they do.
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at last!
 
No5, I don't mean to offend you. I will clarify my comment. There is a misconcieved notion that the Jews are trying to take over the world by Monetary Power, especially in my country. The biggest influences in my country's many layers of government are political access commitees. They are professional lobbiests who go to mainly Washington to influence our lawmakers on their masters's behalf. They take Senantors and Represenatives on trips, golf outings, expensive dinners, etc. where they get that lawmaker's ear and usually work on a corporation's behalf. The reason for my country's support for Israel is principle. We know how the jews were systematicly exterminated by the Nazi's and we would like to see them have a safe place to exisit.

Forostar, I thought that is what you meant but I was'nt sure. Thanks for the calrification.
 
NigelTufnel said:
No5, I don't mean to offend you.
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it was a little painfull, but ok  :)

NigelTufnel said:
The reason for my country's support for Israel is principle. We know how the jews were systematicly exterminated by the Nazi's and we would like to see them have a safe place to exisit.
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well, that might be one of the reasons, but I don't believe it's the principal one

I am pragmatist ; in politics there's allways the same old thing behind the big declarations ; M O N E Y
we, the simple people have some ethics and we still believe in human values
but is not us to govern the world, it's not us that own the press, etc etc

if the reason was really human, then US should turn their eyes to Palestinians now, because these are the suffering people now
they are in prison and the have one of the strongest armies to hit them, and nobody says nothing

--->the president of Czech Republic (who is very pro-US) said that Israelis are attacking for self defence which turned
the rest of European leaders mad<---

so let's recap :
1. money support to political parties must be the reason one
2. a lot of jewish people have extremely imortant places in US society, and that's the reason two
(and let's don't forget that there are some millions of Jewish generally in States)
3. what you mentioned
4. another possible reason is Jesus ; this is a very personal thought, but as US is a very religious state
then some love and sympathy for Israel comes from there too
the two first reason are those who matter the most
 
There are alot of reasons we support Israel. There are a number of Jews here that are in prominent roles. You are correct in your statement that there are a number of Jewish organizations that contribute to both politcal parties. The religeous aspect I don't agree with, because the religeous majority here are evangelical christians. Some of them are fanatics and want jews to accept Jesus Christ as their saviour. They are our religeous extremists.
 
NigelTufnel said:
There are alot of reasons we support Israel.
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didn't I mention all* ?  :P
no, seriously, I can't think anything else

NigelTufnel said:
There are a number of Jews here that are in prominent roles.
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*like this one  B)

NigelTufnel said:
The religeous aspect I don't agree with, because the religeous majority here are evangelical christians. Some of them are fanatics and want jews to accept Jesus Christ as their saviour. They are our religeous extremists.
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yeah, maybe it was a crap my no4

-----
I understand that Israel is a good friend of US, but I feel that if US was more fair-minded,
that would be for the general good in the region of Palestine

what I really can't support is the use of big words : I could accept easily a declaration like
"Israel is our friend and we support it until the end -no matter if it's wrong or right"

I know that'd never possible, but at least it would have been honest : as war really is
 
Do you really believe that the Jews have had enough financial influence to shape our foreign policy for the last 60 years? I believe that the Arab states and Iran have had a bigger economic muscle to flex.
 
Good question... Maybe not the last 60 years, but the last 40 they did influence it a lot,
'influence' is better as 'shape' is a bit heavy.
Look, they are American citizens above all, let's don't forget that.
They are very sensitive for the state of Israel -that's for sure,
and I would say that their major political influence is there ; where else it could be ?

The worst example is Henry Kissinger that he was enough pro-Israel to be blind,
and led his country to an economical dissaster during 70s -but I'm not aware about any similar example.

I believe that the Arab states and Iran have had a bigger economic muscle to flex.
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Yes some Arab states do have the economic muscle, but only this : They can not influence US from inside.
 
I think the Chinese exert more internal pressure than the Jews. And with them it is about the money. The pro chinese policies from the Clinton administration has been detrimental to our economy and has led to huge trade defecits.
 
I think you're right. Jewish influence is more cultural, and being political in Middle East matters.
It was a good example as a lot of people are afraid or don't like Chinese,
and a lot of times I thought that Chinese are the Jewish of 21th century.

They seem to have a similar solitude as Jewish had once, they are very clever and practical as Jewish always were.

The comparaison ends here : with more than 1 billion of population this force is already monstreous,
plus the huge gap between our western civilisation=something completely new is coming.

I've never met a first generation Jewish immigrant, but for the first generation Chinese I've notice this :
They never smile to you, even if you make a joke, they are always extremely serious about their bussines.

The most of the second generation Chinese are just brilliant !

We speak about a country with a huge and completely different culture than ours :
Martial Arts, The culture of Buddhism, Acupuncture, Yoga, The Road Of The Silk, Shadow Play
and many many more : It's just exciting that something new arrive to change the order of the western world !

I'm dealing with Arabs, Jewish, Western, Africans and Chinese : All exept Latins in fact: and I can state that Chinese
is more than anyone else, a completely other culture/ way of thinking, almost another universe !
 
My friend's Grandfather was a Yiddish immigrant from Russia. He was a big pratical joker. I was invited over for a Sader dinner for Passover. Knowing that I was a Catholic, he set me up for a joke involving an egg, because he knew Easter was the following Sunday.

Arab and Persian culture are very different from the West as well. Women here have the same rights and are as powerful as men. When my brother was stationed in Saudi Arabia he said that women were not permitted to drive off base and if they were on foot they had to walk behind their male counterparts.
 
How true ! This is the reason I enjoy being in Israel more than any Arab country (exept Libanon which is an awesome country).
I can drink wine, I can chat with women without feeling criminal, even more that chat  :D
and -believe it or not- I feel ridiculously safe ! One has to visiti Israel to see what I mean.

Tel Aviv has some awesome places to hang out, and not that expensive -I don't see the time to go back.
I've eaten some of my best dishes there, that would have made a French cook to burn his diploms
and drunk some of my best glasses of wine (French though  :P).

The only thing that hurts me is Palestinians, but is something that you know, you don't see or feel it, when you're there.
 
Never been  :(
Is not likely to be sent in Dubai soon, as we got a branch office there.
So what I'm doing is manipulating things so to be sent in that place and work permanently.
I'm working really hard in this direction  :devil2:
I've heard the best about this place though, there are all the colours of people,
a country that everyone speaks English in that point
that the administration of the State established a law that obliges someone who wants to work for the public sector
to have an official document that speaks Arabic  :lol:
 
Dubai is a giant pain in the ass if you're a foreigner.  It's a very, very Muslim country - not mean or terrorist or anything, but they have many strict laws on what you can and cannot do.
 
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