The Israel-Palestine conflict

Okay, now I understand what an international city means. I thought it meant part of Jerusalem will be in the hands of Israel and the other in the hands of the new Palestinian state. I think that's a better solution than an internationaly controlled city. It's still a problematic solution though, and I don't see any side giving up on the city.
 
Well, if that were to happen, the city was going to be half and half Palestinian and Israeli...then it becomes a symbol of the division.
 
pilau said:
Okay, now I understand what an international city means. I thought it meant part of Jerusalem will be in the hands of Israel and the other in the hands of the new Palestinian state. I think that's a better solution than an internationaly controlled city.
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The one does not exclude the other, as weird as it may sound - Berlin was both. It was both an internationally controlled body and a territory divided between east and west. The latter aspect eventually took overhand, and was literally cast in stone in the end. The bottom line is, you can't divide a city. It's been tried with Jerusalem too, and the result was Israeli troops occupying the eastern (Palestinian) part.

What makes things worse is that Jerusalem is a holy city, both to Jews and to Muslims. Both sides consider giving up the city, or even a part of it, to the other side betrayal to their faith. So even if Israel abandons the settlements in the West Bank, even if an independent Palestinian state is proclaimed, the Jerusalem problem will probably prevent ultimate peace. Of course, that's just my estimation of it.
 
It is already a symbol of the division. That can't harm anything more than nowadays.

Anway, it is an additional problem, not the biggest one. It shouldn't block the rest of the process.


edit: Uhh I must confess it is an important problem. Still, perhaps it could be solved independently from the other borders.

I just looked some things up in wiki and found this:

...Jerusalem served as the administrative capital of the British Mandate, which included present-day Israel and Jordan. From 1949 until 1967, West Jerusalem served as Israel's capital, but was not recognized as such internationally because UN General Assembly Resolution 194 envisaged Jerusalem as an international city. As a result of the Six-Day War in 1967, the whole of Jerusalem came under Israeli control. On June 27, 1967, the government of Levi Eshkol extended Israeli law and jurisdiction to East Jerusalem, but agreed that administration of the Temple Mount compound would be maintained by the Jordanian waqf, under the Jordanian Ministry of Religious Endowments. In 1988, Israel ordered the closure of Orient House, home of the Arab Studies Society, but also the headquarters of the Palestine Liberation Organization, for security reasons. The building reopened in 1992 as a Palestinian guesthouse. The Oslo Accords stated that the final status of Jerusalem would be determined by negotiations with the Palestinian National Authority, which regards East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state.

Seems the Palestinians certainly have something to say about it.
 
Well, I think international intervention in the control over Jerusalem is strictly not the way to go. Will only cause problems and unrest. First with the residences of the city and then with the rest of the Israelis and Palestinians.
 
I can't see the Jerusalem issue being resolved by putting it in as a free city.  Both sides would see that as meaning an open invitation, you know?
 
LooseCannon said:
I can't see the Jerusalem issue being resolved by putting it in as a free city.  Both sides would see that as meaning an open invitation, you know?
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As in, an independent city? That is a great idea, theoretically... but who guarantees independence?
 
Ideally?  Israel and Palestine would agree to keep all military and governmental forces out of Jerusalem, making it into a city which runs itself.  Kinda like the Vatican.
 
Historically the Netherlands is characterized by multitude of religions. The Netherlands is and has historically been a predominantly Christian country. Although religious diversity remains to the present day, there is a major decline of religious adherence.

It is expected that between 2017-2023 there will be around 1 million Muslims in the Netherlands.
 
Perun said:
Only Christianity. And Islam, in Turkey's case.
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Oh, I didn't think of it this way. You are right.

Well, to tell you the truth, though, I wouldn't mind in which hands Jerusalem eventually rests. I don't really like the city, and I am not a believer or a supporter of any religion so I have no relation to the religion aspect of the city. As long as nobody ruins the ancient treasures in the city I'm good. :p

@Foro: I learned that in Junior High :D
 
The conflict - the last 20 years in numbers

Some stats of this conflict. Read on.

Data taken from this source

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem commemorated 20 years since its founding with release of data collected by the organization from 1989-2009.

Bloodiest year for the Palestinians: 2009 -> deaths: 1033 (315 minors)
Bloodiest year for Israel: 2002 (second intifadah) -> deaths: 420 (269 civilians incl. 47 minors & 151 members of the military forces)

Year with the lowest level of Palestinian casualties: 1999 -> eight people killed.
Year with the lowest level of Israeli casualties: 1999 -> four people killed.

Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories in the last 20 years killed by Israeli security forces: 7,398 (at least 1,537 minors).
Israelis killed by Palestinians in the last 20 years: 1,483 (139 minors). Of this number, 488 were members of the military forces, and 995 were civilians, killed in Palestinian attacks in Israel and the occupied territories.


Israel demolished at least 4,300 homes in the occupied territories in the years 1989-2009, either for being built without permits, or as punishment. This figure does not include the destruction of property justified by military necessity. This type of demolition includes 3,540 houses demolished during Operation Cast Lead alone, and an estimated 2,700 homes demolished during previous military incursions into Gaza.

In November 1989, 1,794 Palestinians were held by Israel in administrative detention, a detention without trial. Today the number of administrative detainees is 335. The lowest number of administrative detainees, 12, was registered in December 2000. The highest number of those held without trial during the second intifada was 1,007, in January 2003.

The last two decades saw a substantial increase in the number of Israelis living over the Green Line (the 1949 armistice line). In 1989, the settlement population was 69,800 in the West Bank (excluding East Jerusalem), and 118,100 in East Jerusalem. Today, over 300,000 Israelis live in the West Bank, as well as about 190,000 in East Jerusalem.


Build on Israel, dream on Palestinians. Good luck with the peace process.
 
We've had two or three Israel/Palestine threads since this one, but I thought it might be worthwhile digging it up again... you know, three years later and it's all the same again. Thought that says more about what is going on in Gaza right now than anything.

Here's an article which I haven't read yet, from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20392690

And well, I couldn't find anything better than this to express my feelings:

 
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