The Future Past Tour 2024

Should have chosen my words more carefully. Yes they COULD. But that's just not how they do things. Nicko gets a bar or two of click for tempo at the start of a song but they don't do backing tracks.

Can I also point out that this whole discussion is a bit of a nonsense, as it's BLATANTLY someone beside the camera singing along.
 
Trevoire said:
Should have chosen my words more carefully. Yes they COULD. But that's just not how they do things. Nicko gets a bar or two of click for tempo at the start of a song but they don't do backing tracks.

Can I also point out that this whole discussion is a bit of a nonsense, as it's BLATANTLY someone beside the camera singing along.
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I love the fact they don’t use click or backing tracks. I think it is the most disingenuous thing in ‘live’ music.
 
Ascendingthethrone said:
I love the fact they don’t use click or backing tracks. I think it is the most disingenuous thing in ‘live’ music.
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Playing to a click track is still live and something professional musicians do all the time. If you play more technical music it is a requirement, otherwise everything falls apart. This elitism over click tracks is pretty silly. It's just a measure to ensure everyone's on the right time. That's like hating on a conductor for an orchestra or a choir lol (though those admittedly are also responsible for the dynamics, not only the timing).
 
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Vaenyr said:
Playing to a click track is still live and something professional musicians do all the time. If you play more technical musical it is a requirement, otherwise everything falls apart. This elitism over click tracks is pretty silly. It's just a measure to ensure everyone's on the right time. That's like hating on a conductor for an orchestra or a choir lol (though those admittedly are also responsible for the dynamics, not only the timing).
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This, 100%. I find it unfortunate that Ascendingthethrone combined click tracks and backing tracks, because while the latter is generally wrong in the rock/metal paradigm, IMHO (I suppose if you're a very production heavy band, then it's necessary, but it also always reminds me of the Coldplay concert I've attended, thinking to myself "wait, do they actually play live at all?"), the former is definitely not.

Not only are click tracks possibly necessary to play any type of more complex music properly, it can also possibly improve the general performance even of the simpler types of music, because giving the performer a "safe" backing of steady tempo, you can actually get more adventurous, use more of a swing, syncopation, rubato and overall playfulness in your performance and the music will not fall apart.

For more on that, or why it's good to have a solid musical backing and how giving the performers too much of a free hand can be truly detrimental, I'd recommend Sideways' video Why the Music in Cats (2019) is worse than you thought, especially the part on tempo rubato / "stolen time" from cca 39:20 onwards.
 
Vaenyr said:
Playing to a click track is still live and something professional musicians do all the time. If you play more technical musical it is a requirement, otherwise everything falls apart. This elitism over click tracks is pretty silly. It's just a measure to ensure everyone's on the right time. That's like hating on a conductor for an orchestra or a choir lol (though those admittedly are also responsible for the dynamics, not only the timing).
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I am more forgiving for click tracks than backing tracks. I was a cruise holiday once and there was a live band playing and I could hear lots of additional orchestration. The MC came out and thanked the band for keeping ‘music live at sea’. I had to muster all my self control not to shout ‘50% live!’

Also, I don’t get the comparison to a conductor. A conductor can add interpretation and life into a performance. However, most orchestras or choirs can perform large sections of pieces of music without a conductor. Personally I think click tracks take away spontaneity and variance in live performance. I’m just a cranky musician. I have been gigging for 20 odd years and I have always been proud of playing live. It’s just weird to see live music becoming ever more reliant on crutches.

I do however reject the argument that complex music needs click tracks. I have performed many progressive rock gigs with complex time changes without them. Sure I’m not performing on a stadium (that’s where I can see they have a place) but they are not 100% necessary.
 
Does anyone understand why Bruce has played so many solo shows this year and possibly will next year?
Does he see it as a challenge?
Does anyone have a better theory?
 
It's not elitist or anything like that, some people just like spontaneity and think getting lost in the moment is the entire point of live music.
 
Ascendingthethrone said:
Also, I don’t get the comparison to a conductor. A conductor can add interpretation and life into a performance. However, most orchestras or choirs can perform large sections of pieces of music without a conductor. Personally I think click tracks take away spontaneity and variance in live performance. I’m just a cranky musician. I have been gigging for 20 odd years and I have always been proud of playing live. It’s just weird to see live music becoming ever more reliant on crutches.
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As someone who has sung in choirs for years and has sung with orchestras as well: 100% not. If it's a barber shop quartet, sure. But when it's more than, say, 10 people there's no chance in hell to keep time without a conductor. Things will definitely fall apart. Hell, most orchestras and choirs have trouble staying in time even when there's a conductor. The higher the number of people, the higher the change for at least one of them to make a mistake.

Ascendingthethrone said:
I do however reject the argument that complex music needs click tracks. I have performed many progressive rock gigs with complex time changes without them. Sure I’m not performing on a stadium (that’s where I can see they have a place) but they are not 100% necessary.
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Then we have to disagree. I'm thinking of music where each 16th or 32nd note needs to land in a precise spot, often different instruments at the same time. Without a click track this can turn into a mess, which is the reason why most prog acts and musicians use click tracks. It's arguably industry standard.

srfc said:
It's not elitist or anything like that, some people just like spontaneity and think getting lost in the moment is the entire point of live music.
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Does the song almost falling apart count as "getting lost in the moment"? Does Bruce fucking up the timing on RTTH and CSIT dozens of times? Spontaneity can be added without playing seesaw with the tempo.
 
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OutwardFeller said:
He probably wants to build his solo career up, because Iron Maiden are very near their end as a touring band.
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But to do that he could have played in selected cities this year and then continued the tour next year with the fans already waiting for the gigs in their cities/more cities. His solo career would be present in people's minds too.
 
Ascendingthethrone said:
However, most orchestras or choirs can perform large sections of pieces of music without a conductor.
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Source on that, pls? I mean, in small ensembles, you sometimes get the first violinist to conduct the performance, but even that is not usually done in professional ensembles, at least not anymore. The conductor is actually quite important, the bigger the ensemble, the more essential.

Vaenyr said:
But when it's more than, say, 10 people there's no chance in hell to keep time without a conductor. Things will definitely fall apart. Hell, most orchestras and choirs have trouble staying in time even when there's a conductor. The higher the number of people, the higher the change for at least one of them to make a mistake.
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Yep.
 
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