The Future Past tour 2023

[Kalata]

Anyway if Maiden are going to play in that Festival, I think they wouldn't play just Senjutsu and Somewhere in Time songs. what do you think?

It won't make sense, the date is only 2 months after Wacken. And they don't care if it's a festival or an arena show. They might change 1 song, but they'll use the same stage set like they did in 2002. Besides, 5 SIT songs + the usual classics are more than enough for a festival crowd. And to add more, 5 new songs, 2 of which are big fan favorites. After all, they promote their latest album like Metallica, it's just that Maiden usually play at least half of it.

This could very well be a one-off. In addition to the poster about the bill Ghost posted I also saw a blurb along with that line-up saying "only appearance in NA." If so maybe they would put together a special "best of/hits" set and save TPF for the tour in 2024? They would have some time to do that.

Idk, a one-off show sounds very atypical for Maiden, but if it's connected to another ceremony at the same time...

I don't expect more NA dates.

I’m really hoping that when they come back on tour, that they are more warmed up and better rehearsed than the post-covid Legacy leg.

Me too, but they weren't in such bad shape last year (check Rio, Anaheim). Only some nights (which is normal) and certain songs were a bit slower due to age and their placement in the setlist. Bruce is ready.

 

[Trevoire]

Bruce desperately needs to get his monitor problems fixed. Rest of the band sounded fine.

Aye they deployed a while bunch of extra monitors part way through the tour, so he's now got really good coverage.

 

[Diesel 11]

Yes, the transition at 2:15 is one of those and probably the most prominent one. The playing itself is fine. The different sections were recorded at different tempos and crossfaded together. It almost sounds random when the drums come in. Note, I'm not criticizing the structure of the song, I'm simply pointing out that the transition is entirely digital, making it jarring. When they play the song live it's going to work better, but on the studio album it's unfortunately rather weak in my opinion.

The drums don't enter on the first beat of the new section (by itself of course not a problem). They start the measure before with a fill and are supposed to lead in to the new section. So far, so good.
The issue is that usually you'd have the fill be in the tempo of the first section and then, if there's a new tempo, it would start in the next measure. This isn't what happens here though. They recorded two sections separate (which isn't a bad thing either) and then crossfaded them, putting the drum fill with the faster tempo in the final measure of the first section, which has a different tempo, thus creating a mishmash.

Hell On Earth is still a 10/10 for me, but it'll always be shocking to me that a transition like that (specifically the edit, not the playing) would make it on a professional record of a band of Maiden's caliber. Martin Birch wouldn't have allowed that.

Of all the things to criticize the song over, this is the one you choose? Remember the subject matter at hand. That transition jumps out of the gate sooner than you expect, and it sounds pretty damn intentional. War intrudes when least expected and shatters the still with its horror. That drum fill does the exact same within the song. After 2+ minutes of a calm, moody intro, the drums act as guns that destroy everything that's been set up. They usher you into the "Hell on Earth". One of my favorite things about the song, easily.

 

[Vaenyr]

Of all the things to criticize the song over, this is the one you choose? Remember the subject matter at hand. That transition jumps out of the gate sooner than you expect, and it sounds pretty damn intentional. War intrudes when least expected and shatters the still with its horror. That drum fill does the exact same within the song. After 2+ minutes of a calm, moody intro, the drums act as guns that destroy everything that's been set up. They usher you into the "Hell on Earth". One of my favorite things about the song, easily.

It's no secret that the last few Maiden albums have had various production issues. Senjutsu had its fair share of them, with the second disc having unique issues like the clipping guitar signal during some of the solos. The album is great, but it certainly didn't receive the care it deserved, that is undeniable at this point.

The transition doesn't jump in earlier, the tempo as in the speed of the notes played is different making the whole thing sound weird. If you enjoy the mishmash of tempos and the amateurish cross-fading of sections that's your opinion and it is just as valid. We'll have to agree to disagree then, because to me it's an embarrassing display of modern Maiden's "eh, good enough" approach to recording. They used to be driven mad with having to rerecord their parts until they achieved perfection. Ever since the 90's they've abandoned this philosophy and the songs suffer from it. Basically any X Factor song could've been improved if Blaze had had to sing a few more takes. Plenty of reunion era songs deserved better takes from various band members as well.

I don't believe for a single second that they intentionally decided on having mismatched tempos because of the subject matter. If the topic were relevant to the music this song wouldn't have such upbeat and happy sounding sections. Every album since TFF has had some kind of mistakes surviving the production and ending up on the album, so to me it's infinitely more likely that this instance was simply one of many others. I'm absolutely certain about this and won't be convinced otherwise; I assume you're certain in your position as well, so we might as well leave it at that. No point arguing in circles

 

[srfc]

I don't believe for a single second that they intentionally decided on having mismatched tempos because of the subject matter.

You're out of your mind if you think that is not on purpose.

 

[Aggelos]

Sharon conveniantly "forgets" to mention Maiden... LOL

SHARON OSBOURNE Officially Announces OZZY's Comeback To Live Stage

Sharon Osbourne has confirmed that Ozzy Osbourne is set to participate in the 2023 installment of the Power Trip festival. A few days ago, rumors surfaced suggesting that Ozzy is set to join the ranks of GUNS N' ROSES, AC/DC, METALLICA, IRON MAIDEN, and TOOL as one of the headliners…

metaladdicts.com

 

[Vaenyr]

You're out of your mind if you think that is not on purpose.

You're out of your mind if you think that it is on purpose.

See how statements like that don't hold any value and aren't adding anything to the discussion? You're free to believe whatever you want, but at least present some kind of argument. The rest of my post illustrates exactly why I believe that this isn't on purpose.

We have decades of examples of production errors, sloppy editing and performance mistakes making it on the studio records. The fact of the matter is that modern Maiden doesn't painstakingly think about every single detail of their albums in a way that bands like Dream Theater or Blind Guardian do. And that's fine, it's not an inherently bad thing. It's hilarious to me though, that some folks love to defend the way modern Maiden albums are recorded, warts and all (with literal mistakes being kept in) as being "authentic", "real" and not as sterile as other bands, but then turn around and try to paint their sloppiness as if it's an important detail made with the subject matter in mind.

I'm sorry, but we're talking about a band that has band members forget what their actual part is during recording, adapt on the fly, but keep the original take on their most recent couple of albums. Take Nicko's drumming on the chorus for IESF for example.

I think we've strayed far enough from the topic. If someone would like to argue we can do that in a different thread. Just be warned that I'm steadfast in this opinion and I have plenty of examples to back my point
Sorry to everyone who isn't interested in this.

 

[srfc]

You're out of your mind if you think that it is on purpose.

See how statements like that don't hold any value and aren't adding anything to the discussion? You're free to believe whatever you want, but at least present some kind of argument.

Ok, your argument basically states that Maiden, professional musicians making albums for over 40 years, have recorded a section of a song, and have just decided to not make any reference to the tempo of the previous section when recording the next section and just hoped for the best. and then when it turned out it was recorded at a faster tempo they either just decided, "fuck that we didn't want it faster, but lets just keep it anyway" or even worse, they haven't noticed it's faster.

Or, as occam's razor would suggest, it's recorded at a faster tempo, because they wanted it faster.

 

[matic22]

Sharon conveniantly "forgets" to mention Maiden... LOL

SHARON OSBOURNE Officially Announces OZZY's Comeback To Live Stage

Sharon Osbourne has confirmed that Ozzy Osbourne is set to participate in the 2023 installment of the Power Trip festival. A few days ago, rumors surfaced suggesting that Ozzy is set to join the ranks of GUNS N' ROSES, AC/DC, METALLICA, IRON MAIDEN, and TOOL as one of the headliners…

metaladdicts.com

Real talk, Ozzy not divorcing Sharon a few years back when he had the chance will cost him at least 5 years of his life, because Sharon will make him perform despite his condition.

Anyway, the official announcement is today, isn't it?

 

[Spaldy]

You're out of your mind if you think that it is on purpose.

See how statements like that don't hold any value and aren't adding anything to the discussion? You're free to believe whatever you want, but at least present some kind of argument. The rest of my post illustrates exactly why I believe that this isn't on purpose.

We have decades of examples of production errors, sloppy editing and performance mistakes making it on the studio records. The fact of the matter is that modern Maiden doesn't painstakingly think about every single detail of their albums in a way that bands like Dream Theater or Blind Guardian do. And that's fine, it's not an inherently bad thing. It's hilarious to me though, that some folks love to defend the way modern Maiden albums are recorded, warts and all (with literal mistakes being kept in) as being "authentic", "real" and not as sterile as other bands, but then turn around and try to paint their sloppiness as if it's an important detail made with the subject matter in mind.

I'm sorry, but we're talking about a band that has band members forget what their actual part is during recording, adapt on the fly, but keep the original take on their most recent couple of albums. Take Nicko's drumming on the chorus for IESF for example.

I think we've strayed far enough from the topic. If someone would like to argue we can do that in a different thread. Just be warned that I'm steadfast in this opinion and I have plenty of examples to back my point
Sorry to everyone who isn't interested in this.

All this over one drum fill?

 

[Vaenyr]

Ok, your argument basically states that Maiden, professional musicians making albums for over 40 years, have recorded a section of a song, and have just decided to not make any reference to the tempo of the previous section when recording the next section and just hoped for the best. and then when it turned out it was recorded at a faster tempo they either just decided, "fuck that we didn't want it faster, but lets just keep it anyway" or even worse, they haven't noticed it's faster.

Or, as occam's razor would suggest, it's recorded at a faster tempo, because they wanted it faster.

My argument is that Maiden, professional musicians who for the last 30 years have left plenty of easily fixable errors and mistakes in their album did just that once again. I'm not even talking about subjective opinions, I'm talking about objectively observable mistakes.

Many of the epics are recorded in multiple parts and while Nicko has started using a metronome to count in songs live, they aren't recording like that in the studio. Add to that the fact that they are recording live and you quickly arrive at one of the most common problems in music recording: being off-tempo. This isn't some giant leap of logic, this is the most reasonable explanation when taking in the context of the last 30 years. We have decades of examples and especially the last 15 years have more errors than usual.

Maiden have shown time and time again that they aren't interested to spend months in the studio to get every single detail right. That's the way they like to record and it's their right to do things like that. But then people shouldn't be surprised when mistakes get pointed out or criticized. They're my favorite band, but I'm not gonna excuse every single thing. And I say that as someone whose favorite album is VXI of all things.

All this over one drum fill?

No, "all this" over being told "You're out of your mind if you think that is not on purpose" after I gave plenty of explanations for why I wrote what I wrote and none of them were addressed in any way. I've made my points clear and if people feel the need to engage with them in bad faith there's nothing I can do.
But as I said in my previous comment, this isn't the place for this discussion and I'm willing to drop it or move it elsewhere. In fact, I'll let this be my final comment on the matter in this thread and if people are having issues with my points we'll have to leave it at that.

 

[GhostofCain]

If the topic were relevant to the music this song wouldn't have such upbeat and happy sounding sections.

That’s the thing I find most baffling about the song: happy sounding sections with lyrics that do not fit the mood, particularly when Bruce starts singing

Beginning of a sunrise bores a big hole in the sky
Not to reason why that armed children are in this world

Anyway, it is a pointless discussion. Those who love Senjutsu would not stop loving it and those of us that have failed to be impressed by it would hardly change our views after listening to the album for quite some time.

 

[UpTheIrons]

That’s the thing I find most baffling about the song: happy sounding sections with lyrics that do not fit the mood, particularly when Bruce starts singing

Beginning of a sunrise bores a big hole in the sky
Not to reason why that armed children are in this world

Anyway, it is a pointless discussion. Those who love Senjutsu would not stop loving it and those of us that have failed to be impressed by it would hardly change our views after listening to the album for quite some time.

That's interesting that you find some of the sections to be happy sounding, personally I have always found the lead guitar melodies to be mournful sounding, with a touch of yearning - I believe they are all in the E natural minor scale.

Real talk, Ozzy not divorcing Sharon a few years back when he had the chance will cost him at least 5 years of his life, because Sharon will make him perform despite his condition.

Anyway, the official announcement is today, isn't it?

Metal Hammer says the announcement will be around 3pm GMT.

 

[Vaenyr]

That’s the thing I find most baffling about the song: happy sounding sections with lyrics that do not fit the mood, particularly when Bruce starts singing

Beginning of a sunrise bores a big hole in the sky
Not to reason why that armed children are in this world

Anyway, it is a pointless discussion. Those who love Senjutsu would not stop loving it and those of us that have failed to be impressed by it would hardly change our views after listening to the album for quite some time.

I'm in between to be honest, but maybe I need to be more careful with my wording lol

I really enjoy Senjutsu as an album. It's one of my favorites from the reunion era. From a songwriting perspective I'm mostly satisfied. My issues are with the production, little errors here and there. I'm rather analytical in my approach to media, and I'm usually much more critical of things I enjoy. If it's something I don't care about, I'll just stop bothering with it, but if it's an album by my favorite band for example, you can bet that I will analyze it front to back and backwards, because that's simply the type of person I am. I can see how that would be exhausting to others, but in case it's still not clear:

I criticize some aspects of Maiden because I love them, not because I'm a hater

 

[matic22]

I criticize some aspects of Maiden because I love them, not because I'm a hater

+1

 

[Poto]

Anyway, it is a pointless discussion. Those who love Senjutsu would not stop loving it and those of us that have failed to be impressed by it would hardly change our views after listening to the album for quite some time.

This is a bit like plot holes in movies. If you like the movie, you don't care about them, and if you don't like it then the mistake will annoy even more.

 

[Flaming Blimp Crash]

That’s the thing I find most baffling about the song: happy sounding sections with lyrics that do not fit the mood, particularly when Bruce starts singing

Beginning of a sunrise bores a big hole in the sky
Not to reason why that armed children are in this world

Anyway, it is a pointless discussion. Those who love Senjutsu would not stop loving it and those of us that have failed to be impressed by it would hardly change our views after listening to the album for quite some time.

I agree with UpTheIrons, 'happy' isn't quite the tone I get from the melodies in Hell on Earth. More mournful/reflective and preparing for one last battle? (What the hell does 'reflective' sound like, you ask? Dunno, but it's the tone I got before diving into the lyrics. I listen to more of the riffs/melodies before ever taking a look/listen to the lyrics.)

Aye they deployed a while bunch of extra monitors part way through the tour, so he's now got really good coverage.

Might be me being way too analytical here, but at what point? The monitor issues were still there in Chicago and there were only 10 or so dates left after that show?

 

[matic22]

Well, it's official.

Maiden are playing Friday night with GNR.

Also, Acca Dacca is back.

 

[UpTheIrons]

Power Trip Festival line-up confirmed to be real, complete with utterly obscene prices - General Admission tickets for the 3 days (i.e. back of the field) are $599 dollars, pit tickets and best seat tickets are $1599 dollars apiece.

 

[GhostofCain]

Power Trip Festival line-up confirmed to be real, complete with utterly obscene prices - General Admission tickets for the 3 days (i.e. back of the field) are $599 dollars, pit tickets and best seat tickets are $1599 dollars apiece.

It's Cabaret!