The Book of Souls: General album discussion

Things sinking in bit more now...

Still loving every second of Eternity, Great Unknown has been the major grower, and I like Red and the Black more now. River continues to be my least favourite. Oddly enough, I've become less enthusiastic about the title track, which I really liked first time out. It's good, but there isn't really a hook. Death or Glory has moved up in my ratings as a nice nod to a bit of old-style Maiden, Shadows I liked anyway. Tears still a strong one. I need to isolate Man of Sorrows from the rest of the album and listen to it alone. It really suffers from its placing in the track list. Empire...well, I thought the novelty might have worn off by now. Still not the case.
 
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Flawless songs on album by me (in no particular order):
If Eternity Should Fail
Death Or Glory
Shadows Of The Valley
Tears Of A Clown
Empire Of The Clouds

Songs with minor issues:
The Red And The Black
The Book Of Souls
The Man of Sorrows

'I can not decide' songs:
The Great Unknown
When The River Runs Deep
Speed of Light

For me, first five batch of songs saved the album \m/ :)
 
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i dont get those "fail, it sounded like wasted years, how they didn't notice?, they ripped themselves" kinda comments, seriously do you think they didn't notice? . Why not think that they did that on purpose ? To bring back memories of those years to fans. Just watch SoL video, its remembrance of Maiden eras.
 
xmagox said:
i dont get those "fail, it sounded like wasted years, how they didn't notice?, they ripped themselves" kinda comments, seriously do you think they didn't notice? . Why not think that they did that on purpose ? To bring back memories of those years to fans. Just watch SoL video, its remembrance of Maiden eras.
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I'm referring to them using material from recent eras. The Wasted Years throwback didn't bother me in SotV (even in the unlikely event they didn't notice the similarity, I find it natural to revisit old creative ideas and put a new spin on them); I didn't appreciate how similar parts of the song felt to Isle of Avalon and The Fallen Angel.
 
My breakdown. It's all still fresh, but I tried to categorise the songs:

BRILLIANT:
- If Eternity Should Fail
- The Book of Souls
- The Red and the Black (barely makes it, but it's simply better than anything from the "GOOD" category)

GOOD:
- Speed of Light
- The Great Unknown
- Death or Glory

MEDIOCRE:
- Shadows of the Valley
- Tears of a Clown

LEAST FAVOURITE:
- When the River Runs Deep
- The Man of Sorrows
- Empire of the Clouds (mainly due to the disappointment factor, because it has a couple of good ideas)

Now I'm wondering when and how my perception of the album will change.
 
Srogyy said:
Okay. Time for some early general impressions. I'm in a bit of a foul mood after hearing Empire of the Clouds, so I would like to focus on the negatives first. It's not nice, but I have to get it off my chest :p

First of all I sense a problem regarding their approach to songwriting on this one. I have a feeling that since The Final Frontier the guys don't spend enough time crafting songs. A good, cohesive song has to mature. The approach of making everything on the go on TBoS (as pictured in the interviews) is quite ignorant, I think, and it takes its toll. It was a bad decision to just throw ideas into buckets and going "we'll figure something out." This shouldn't be a double album. They shouldn't have used whatever idea they had to make something of it no matter what, but rather than that, sit down and WORK on the best of them. There are many uninspired moments and awkward transitions on the album, because of their attempts to glue certain ideas together. There are so many signs that they wanted to get over it as quick as possible... I know they are getting older and maybe a bit bored with writing and recording, but still... They should give 100% during the creative process, not just jam-out the songs. And just to be clear - I'm not a "play classics" guy. The reunion era is absolutely my favourite (ok, along with Powerslave, SiT and SSoaSS). That's why I care.

Another thing - I don't know what's the deal with all the self-repeating. There are particularly many deja vu moments on this record. Don't they remember their own songs? :)

I'm also disappointed by the soloing. Maybe there was one by Adrian that stood out, but I don't remember which song that was. Besides, is it me or drumming is also underwhelming? Beats and especially fills are very similar throughout the album. I might be unfair at this point, though, because these days I listen mostly to music with different style of drumming.

As for production - I don't know whether or not I should comment on it yet. I haven't yet focused on the sound enough, but I think it's fine. It's different than the other albums. I like it more than the sound of TFF, but I don't know if I prefer it over BNW or AMoLaD).

Wow, I guess it looks like I hated the album, but it's not like that. I'm very forgiving to Maiden - my favourite band of all time - and I know I will enjoy TBoS a lot. I just think it objectively has some very vivid flaws. I'll focus on positives in the track by track breakdown. I don't like rating Maiden, but if i had to, I guess the album would be a 7/10 at this point.
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Srogyy absolutely nailed this. I seemed to have lost my old account, but I came here to see if everyone else was as disappointed with the album as I was. For me, it's quite possibly the worst Bruce album they've put out. It seems that everyone is pretty much in agreement that If Eternity Should Fail is the best song on the album. This was the only great song for me. Everything else is only decent or worse.
 
I can't do a breakdown like that because I wouldn't know how to categorize the songs.

If Eternity Should Fail, The Book of Souls, and Tears of a Clown are the three songs I believe are absolutely perfect in their current states, but I don't know if I would rank any of them above a very clearly flawed song -- The Man of Sorrows. TMoS has lots of obvious problems, namely with transitions, but it's one of my favorite moments in Maiden history. It's just so unexpectedly passionate. Same with Empire of the Clouds. I have more complaints about it than pretty much any song on the album, but it's also my favorite from the album.

The first disc is growing on me, but I'd guess most of my least favorites will still be from it.
 
Random thought, but I hope this girl makes a cover of some song/songs from this album. Maybe empire of the clouds.


Rambi said:
It seems that everyone is pretty much in agreement that If Eternity Should Fail is the best song on the album..
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No, they're not.
And this is quite possibly the best Maiden album ever. EVER. To say it sounds like random ideas just seem weird to me, and seems to come from a view where you have expectations of how it should sound. This album sounds extremely fresh and alive. They follow some rules, sure, but it is much freer than any other Maiden album I can think of. The music flows out straight from the ether.
 
Consumer Of Souls said:
Random thought, but I hope this girl makes a cover of some song/songs from this album. Maybe empire of the clouds.




No, they're not.
And this is quite possibly the best Maiden album ever. EVER. To say it sounds like random ideas just seem weird to me, and seems to come from a view where you have expectations of how it should sound. This album sounds extremely fresh and alive. They follow some rules, sure, but it is much freer than any other Maiden album I can think of. The music flows out straight from the ether.
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Why exactly is this the best Maiden album ever? Which qualities would you say make it the best? Like was mentioned previously, the song writing is all over the place. Many many awkward transitions, VERY uninspired solos (I'm bitterly disappointed in H), the mixing drowns out Bruce's vocals (people had no idea what the lyrics were until they read it in the booklet), the melodies in lots of the epics go on for far too long, etc etc etc. I mean, just listen to the intro and outro to The Red and the Black. Very sloppy playing, and they just kept it. The entire thing feels very very rushed. They just wanted to pop into the studio, pump out the longest album they've ever done, and go on with their lives.

It's especially disappointing considering the fact that this is what they follow up their four BEST albums with. Many may disagree with me, but I think their post-reunion stuff is their best work by far.
 
Rambi said:
Why exactly is this the best Maiden album ever? Which qualities would you say make it the best? Like was mentioned previously, the song writing is all over the place. Many many awkward transitions, VERY uninspired solos (I'm bitterly disappointed in H), the mixing drowns out Bruce's vocals (people had no idea what the lyrics were until they read it in the booklet), the melodies in lots of the epics go on for far too long, etc etc etc. I mean, just listen to the intro and outro to The Red and the Black. Very sloppy playing, and they just kept it. The entire thing feels very very rushed. They just wanted to pop into the studio, pump out the longest album they've ever done, and go on with their lives.

It's especially disappointing considering the fact that this is what they follow up their four BEST albums with. Many may disagree with me, but I think their post-reunion stuff is their best work by far.
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You're saying that The Book of Souls is full of "awkward transitions", "uninspired solos", and "all over the place" songwriting while simultaneously holding up Dance of Death and The Final Frontier as the part of their "four best albums"? I love the reunion stuff, but Dance of Death's songwriting and sound is absolutely all over the place and The Final Frontier has some of the most uninspired, awkward transitions of any Maiden album ever.
 
Rambi said:
Why exactly is this the best Maiden album ever? Which qualities would you say make it the best? Like was mentioned previously, the song writing is all over the place. Many many awkward transitions, VERY uninspired solos (I'm bitterly disappointed in H), the mixing drowns out Bruce's vocals (people had no idea what the lyrics were until they read it in the booklet), the melodies in lots of the epics go on for far too long, etc etc etc. I mean, just listen to the intro and outro to The Red and the Black. Very sloppy playing, and they just kept it. The entire thing feels very very rushed. They just wanted to pop into the studio, pump out the longest album they've ever done, and go on with their lives.

It's especially disappointing considering the fact that this is what they follow up their four BEST albums with. Many may disagree with me, but I think their post-reunion stuff is their best work by far.
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How is "the song writing all over the place", seems like a subjective opinion I absolutely don't agree with. The compositions are way way smarter than anything I've ever heard from Maiden. The transitions are the opposite of awkward. Unconventional, maybe, but in my opinion, absolutely genius. Neither can I agree with that the solos are uninspired. Maybe not the best solos on any album, but still great. As for the rest... well, I guess we have to agree to disagree again, because I don't see it.
In my opinion you must be missing something if you're of those opinions.
 
Consumer Of Souls said:
How is "the song writing all over the place", seems like a subjective opinion I absolutely don't agree with. The compositions are way way smarter than anything I've ever heard from Maiden. The transitions are the opposite of awkward. Unconventional, maybe, but in my opinion, absolutely genius. Neither can I agree with that the solos are uninspired. Maybe not the best solos on any album, but still great. As for the rest... well, I guess we have to agree to disagree again, because I don't see it.
In my opinion you must be missing something if you're of those opinions.
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Agreed. If anything, the transitions on this album are some of their most fluid ever. I don't even notice that they've changed timing or rhythm until I'm halfway through a new section, and then I'm too busy rocking out to care.
 
I also think this may end up my favorite Maiden album. It just oozes amazing. Everything that made me fall in love with Powerslave when i was 13 or so is still here in abundance plus so much new and it all blends so well. It's easily their best reunion album for me. Right there with SSOAS, SIT and Powerslave for me.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
You're saying that The Book of Souls is full of "awkward transitions", "uninspired solos", and "all over the place" songwriting while simultaneously holding up Dance of Death and The Final Frontier as the part of their "four best albums"? I love the reunion stuff, but Dance of Death's songwriting and sound is absolutely all over the place and The Final Frontier has some of the most uninspired, awkward transitions of any Maiden album ever.
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I obviously don't consider it up there. The four I was referring to are Brave New World, Dance of Death, A Matter of Life and Death, and Final Frontier. All four are masterpieces. I would only place the Blaze albums below Book of Souls.
 
Srogyy said:
Really? Are 6:57, 7:18, 8:29, 8:35, 14:24 in Empire fluid transitions to you?
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CLASSIC prog transitions. Sounds amazing. That's how it should be. Listen to some King Crimson and Van Der Graaf Generator and come back and say if those transitions are bad. If so, well, you just don't "get it". Not saying that as some kind of insult or attempt to say you have a "lesser understanding", don't get me wrong. You just don't get it then in the sense that this kind of music isn't for you. But there isn't anything wrong with the actual music, there is nothing wrong with the transitions.
 
No, they are classic transitions between parts, which don't stick together... :p Please, don't 'go-and-listen' me.
 
Srogyy said:
No, they are classic transitions between parts, which don't stick together... :p Please, don't 'go-and-listen' me.
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They do stick together. And go listen is to show you what kind of music it is they're playing, and that there's nothing wrong with the transitions. The "problem" lies with you, not the song. I'm saying "problem", because each to his own, but of course I need to point out that statement is incorrect. Things stick together if it sounds good, and it does sound good. That is what good prog does, it throws the rule book out the window.
 
Rambi said:
I obviously don't consider it up there. The four I was referring to are Brave New World, Dance of Death, A Matter of Life and Death, and Final Frontier. All four are masterpieces. I would only place the Blaze albums below Book of Souls.
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IRYO, but...that's sad. This album is truly great.

Srogyy said:
No, they are classic transitions between parts, which don't stick together... :p Please, don't 'go-and-listen' me.
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It's clear you just don't like prog all that much. Which is totally valid. I used to hate it. But I've come to love it over time.

And I will still say that those Empire of the Clouds transitions are a million times better than the transitions on a poorly arranged song, like The Man Who Would Be King.
 
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