MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I love all the individual parts, but it sounds like one big cut and paste job to me.
The Book of Souls: General album discussion
- Thread starter SinisterMinisterX
- Start date
I love all the individual parts, but it sounds like one big cut and paste job to me.
Srogyy
Ancient Mariner
By 'prog' you mean complex stuff? I like demanding music, so that's why I think I know what I'm talking about. I'm afraid that some people make excuses for mess with the 'prog' talk. Whatever. It's obvious we're not going to come to any agreement. Cool. If you like Empire - enjoy.
Yes, TMWWBK is arranged equally bad, but at least its individual parts are more or less interesting and feature some impressive guitar work. The whole middle of Empire is not like that...
If this music features same things I dislike about Empire (I doubt it), I can already tell you I don't like it. I'm not going to say it's good just because some acclaimed artists do the same. There is no 'rule book', as you said yourself.
Josh
Ancient Mariner
I hope you're joking. Half of DoD is forgettable. I will be coming back to this way more than I ever will with DoD.
Consumer Of Souls
Trooper
No with prog I mean just that, prog. I mean classical prog. More precisely the legendary progressive rock bands that paved the way for that kind of music. King Crimson, Van Der Graaf Generator. Bands that lots of musicians see as great inspirations. I'm not talking about bands like Dream Theater that prog just to prog and more seem to see the music as some mathematical algorithm (no offense to DT fans).
Fact remains it's not mess. It might be in your opinion. But as a matter of fact, it obviously isn't. It would be strange if you thought so, but loads of "high level" musicians happen to just mess it up and don't be aware of that "things don't fit".
I'm not saying you should say anything is good. I am saying the opposite - to each his own. But as a matter of fact I'm still insisting that the music per se isn't "badly arranged", it simply isn't, and that is completely false. Not a matter of opinion, but fact.
Collin
Chasing Ponce De Leon's Phantoms
I've probably racked up about 20 listens per song, Death or Glory being an exception. I'm loving the album, it's easily one of their best.
Here's how I'd rank the songs.
Masterpieces
1. Empire of the Clouds
2. The Book of Souls
3. If Eternity Should Fail
4. The Red and the Black
Great
5. Shadows of the Valley
6. The Great Unknown
7. Tears of a Clown
8. Man of Sorrows
9. Speed of light
Mediocre
10. When the River Runs Deep - Though I am starting to warm up to it.
Bad
11. Death or Glory - Climb like a monkey is just awful, and the Chorus is dreadful.
Here's how I'd rank the songs.
Masterpieces
1. Empire of the Clouds
2. The Book of Souls
3. If Eternity Should Fail
4. The Red and the Black
Great
5. Shadows of the Valley
6. The Great Unknown
7. Tears of a Clown
8. Man of Sorrows
9. Speed of light
Mediocre
10. When the River Runs Deep - Though I am starting to warm up to it.
Bad
11. Death or Glory - Climb like a monkey is just awful, and the Chorus is dreadful.
matic22
Ancient Mariner
I don't look on EOTC as a song. I look at it as a story. And I think the so called "rough" trasitions in this song bring the story that is told more to life. Some aspects of it remind me of La Villa Strangiato which is instrumental and also takes you through the dreams of Alex Lifeson and it's even less smooth (if you don't like EOTC because of rough transitions DON'T touch this song
). And that is also why the instrumental bits on EOTC have more point than on TRATB imho. They tell a story and paint a picture that wasn't sung by Bruce and leave some imagination to the listener. If you want to show that something went wrong quickly through music you can't do it with smooth transition or big anticipation (imho that's where most soundtracks go wrong
).
viced92
Nomad
Dance is probably my second favorite Maiden album..I'm pretty sure the only one I've came back to more is SiT.
No, I'm not joking. I love every song on DoD, and Paschendale and Dance of Death are two of the greatest songs they've ever written.
Srogyy
Ancient Mariner
Don't blow it out of proportion...
Maiden are a genre on their own, we don't have to look back at anyone when talking about it. And I wouldn't be so sure about all the 'facts'... 
Guys. I'm not against rough transitions, but they have to make sense. Anyway, forget transitions... I wouldn't mind the sloppiest transitions if the instrumental parts were interesting. And I don't buy the whole storytelling argument... There are songs that do it better.I don't look on EOTC as a song. I look at it as a story. And I think the so called "rough" trasitions in this song bring the story that is told more to life. Some aspects of it remind me of La Villa Strangiato which is instrumental and also takes you through the dreams of Alex Lifeson and it's even less smooth (if you don't like EOTC because of rough transitions DON'T touch this song
I swear to God, I'll rearrange the song myself when I'll have some free time!
Consumer Of Souls
Trooper
Don't blow it out of proportion...
Guys. I'm not against rough transitions, but they have to make sense. Anyway, forget transitions... I wouldn't mind the sloppiest transitions if the instrumental parts were interesting. And I don't buy the whole storytelling argument... There are songs that do it better.
I swear to God, I'll rearrange the song myself when I'll have some free time!
What I'm saying is that they do make sense. They just don't make sense to you. The transitions in A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers wouldn't make sense to you either, but that song is a journey through space and time, an experience that is way greater than any that can be taken from a song which transitions "make sense" in the way you mean it. In my opinion, of course.
And of course we can look back at others. These are all bands that has influenced Maiden. VdGG has been an influence to Bruce, something he says himself, and something you even can tell from his singing style. I didn't say you have to agree, once again. It's just that you spoke about it as if it didn't make sense. Say that it doesn't make sense to you. Because it makes perfect sense. Or maybe all the people think it does are crazy?
Mountil
Captain Charisma
I think this album will definitely be in my top five, probably taking the fourth or fifth spot. It will take months to be certain though. My opinion of these songs seem to change day to day.
I would have been happy for three good songs on this album, that would have been enough for me. I got six, so I'm thrilled.
Top Ten Material
(nothing)
Very Good
1. If Eternity Should Fail
2. The Book of Souls
Good
3. Death or Glory
4. The Red and the Black
5. Tears of a Clown
6. When the River Runs Deep
Average
7. The Man of Sorrows
8. The Great Unknown
9. Empire of the clouds
10. Speed of light
Forgettable or Bad
11. Shadows of the Valley
Empire obviously being the biggest disappointment. The more I listen to it, the more I'm fine with never hearing it again. I just don't get the appeal, and that bums me out, because I'd like to enjoy everything, especially this song which is loved by so many others. Great lyrics, but nothing interesting musically. No parts stand out to me. I'm eager to get on with the story, but the long drawn out instrumental section kills the momentum of the story. If the music would be inservice of the story, helping to paint a picture, than sure, but the simple guitar line evokes nothing of a ship in the air. When we finally get through it and to the climax, we can't understand anything Bruce is singing, which feels almost like a slap in the face considering we just sat through a long instrumental to get to this climax.
Which is the exact opposite to The Red and the Black, which has so many amazing interesting parts, too many for one song. It bounces from one to the other, less would be more for the Red and the Black. Still love it though.
I would have been happy for three good songs on this album, that would have been enough for me. I got six, so I'm thrilled.
Top Ten Material
(nothing)
Very Good
1. If Eternity Should Fail
2. The Book of Souls
Good
3. Death or Glory
4. The Red and the Black
5. Tears of a Clown
6. When the River Runs Deep
Average
7. The Man of Sorrows
8. The Great Unknown
9. Empire of the clouds
10. Speed of light
Forgettable or Bad
11. Shadows of the Valley
Empire obviously being the biggest disappointment. The more I listen to it, the more I'm fine with never hearing it again. I just don't get the appeal, and that bums me out, because I'd like to enjoy everything, especially this song which is loved by so many others. Great lyrics, but nothing interesting musically. No parts stand out to me. I'm eager to get on with the story, but the long drawn out instrumental section kills the momentum of the story. If the music would be inservice of the story, helping to paint a picture, than sure, but the simple guitar line evokes nothing of a ship in the air. When we finally get through it and to the climax, we can't understand anything Bruce is singing, which feels almost like a slap in the face considering we just sat through a long instrumental to get to this climax.
Which is the exact opposite to The Red and the Black, which has so many amazing interesting parts, too many for one song. It bounces from one to the other, less would be more for the Red and the Black. Still love it though.
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xmagox
Invader
This applies to all the people over the internet saying that the line "climb like a monkey" doesn't make sense. There is a reason behind why they used that line, is not that they just randomly thought about a monkey climbing and wrote about it.
Srogyy
Ancient Mariner
Suuuuure... I'm just a mere human being
I listened to a bit of this Plague of something, and it's beyond me that you try to compare it to Empire. It's different music, man
What would the reason be? I mean, is the reason you're talking about just that monkeys are good climbers? This is easily the most embarrassing Maiden lyric I've heard. And yes, it tops Quest for Fire.
matic22
Ancient Mariner
No, someone in the history said that... let me do some research...
Here ya go:
It was Manfred von Richthofen, Red Baron:
The nimble triplane must have held incredible appeal for a virtuoso pilot such as Richthofen, and with his forces suddenly facing a superior aircraft it is not surprising that he pressed the Idflieg to provide a similar aircraft.
The response of the German and Austrian manufacturers was astonishing. They produced more than a dozen different triplanes, usually adaptations of existing designs. But of all these planes the most successful was the Fokker Dr I, designed by Fokker's chief engineer Reinhold Platz. Richthofen was delighted, saying the planes "are manoeuvrable as the devil and climb like monkeys".
Here ya go:
It was Manfred von Richthofen, Red Baron:
The nimble triplane must have held incredible appeal for a virtuoso pilot such as Richthofen, and with his forces suddenly facing a superior aircraft it is not surprising that he pressed the Idflieg to provide a similar aircraft.
The response of the German and Austrian manufacturers was astonishing. They produced more than a dozen different triplanes, usually adaptations of existing designs. But of all these planes the most successful was the Fokker Dr I, designed by Fokker's chief engineer Reinhold Platz. Richthofen was delighted, saying the planes "are manoeuvrable as the devil and climb like monkeys".
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DJMayes
Ancient Mariner
It's a shame to hear so many people disappointed with EOTC. I like the song so much I would put it in my top 5 Maiden songs without hesitation and the only reason I hesitate to put it at #1 is because of how recent it is. 10 or so playthroughs and it's still there though.
In the same vein other people are perhaps doing, I'd rate the songs as follows:
01 - Empire Of The Clouds
02 - If Eternity Should Fail
03 - Shadows Of The Valley
04 - 08:
- Speed Of Light
- The Red And The Black
- When The River Runs Deep
- Death Or Glory
- Tears Of A Clown
09 - The Book Of Souls
10 - Man Of Sorrows
11 - The Great Unknown
Spaces are meant to distinguish between different tiers of songs, if you will. 10 and 11 are the tracks I just haven't gotten yet. 9 is getting better but not on the same level as the others. The next 5 are massively up in the air as to ordering.
Putting them like this, if I just took the first 8 songs I'd have an album that for me stands alongside their very best. I don't even view the other 3 songs as disappointments; more just an added bonus to what I view as an incredibly good album.
In the same vein other people are perhaps doing, I'd rate the songs as follows:
01 - Empire Of The Clouds
02 - If Eternity Should Fail
03 - Shadows Of The Valley
04 - 08:
- Speed Of Light
- The Red And The Black
- When The River Runs Deep
- Death Or Glory
- Tears Of A Clown
09 - The Book Of Souls
10 - Man Of Sorrows
11 - The Great Unknown
Spaces are meant to distinguish between different tiers of songs, if you will. 10 and 11 are the tracks I just haven't gotten yet. 9 is getting better but not on the same level as the others. The next 5 are massively up in the air as to ordering.
Putting them like this, if I just took the first 8 songs I'd have an album that for me stands alongside their very best. I don't even view the other 3 songs as disappointments; more just an added bonus to what I view as an incredibly good album.
Consumer Of Souls
Trooper
Suuuuure... I'm just a mere human being
I listened to a bit of this Plague of something, and it's beyond me that you try to compare it to Empire. It's different music, man
Yeah, it is different music. But the tempo changes and transitions "doesn't make sense", in the way you talk about it. It is like different sections. But it still works, obviously, since people like the music and think it's great. That's the point. It was intended by the musicians, it wasn't mistakes.
Srogyy
Ancient Mariner
You don't have to explain. It works there because it's a different genre... If something is good for one type of music, it doesn't mean it has to work everywhere... I've never said something doesn't make sense universally. I was referring only to Empire all the time.