Official Hockey discussion thread

Thomas got another 32 save shut out last night. He'll probably get the Vezina with his .948 save %. I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's where a .890 was considered superb, now we are talking .92+
 
Goalies have gotten WAY better since then. While it will be a while to find a goalie to give Roy or Brodeur a run for their money, We will see plenty of goalies with 300+ wins.... unless they play in Florida.
 
Not to mention that team defence has improved leaps and bounds as well.  You take any one of the Devils (pretty much any time in the last decade and a half), the Stars of the late '90s, the Blues of the late '90s/early '00s, or the Senators until '06, and you could shut down Gretzky's Oilers without too much difficulty.
 
Agreed.

Crosby gets a lot of hate for being in the limelight, but prior to his concussion he was having a season that IMO would make Gretzky and Lemieux look like 3rd liners once it's era adjusted.
 
I agree.  132 points in this day and age is beyond phenomenal.

Furthermore, I'd also argue that Crosby is much better defensively than either of those two.
 
GuineaPig said:
you could shut down Gretzky's Oilers without too much difficulty.
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I know what you're saying, but don't think any team (modern or otherwise) could shut down Gretzky's Oilers without a great deal of difficulty.
 
My predictions for the major awards:

Hart Trophy
Who will win: Daniel Sedin
Who should win: Tim Thomas

Vezina Trophy
Who will win: Tim Thomas
Who should win: Tim Thomas

Calder Trophy
Who will win: Jeff Skinner
Who should win: Michael Grabner

Norris Trophy
Who will win: Nicklas Lidstrom
Who should win: Keith Yandle

Bill Masterton Trophy
Who will win: Ray Emery
Who should win: Ray Emery

Jack Adams Trophy
Who will win: Dan Bylsma
Who should win: Jacques Lemaire

Frank J. Selke Trophy
Who will win: Ryan Kesler
Who should win: Ryan Kesler
 
Onhell said:
Agreed.

Crosby gets a lot of hate for being in the limelight, but prior to his concussion he was having a season that IMO would make Gretzky and Lemieux look like 3rd liners once it's era adjusted.
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I don't think there is or will ever be a player that could make Gretzky or Lemieux look like a 3rd liner lol. Gretzky had an unbelievable run from 82-86, especially the 81-82 season. 50 goals in 39 games, 92 goals and 212 points is a season that no one will ever touch, no matter how many adjustments are made.
 
Well, lets see.  In 1981-82, there were 6493 goals scored by 21 teams playing 80 games each, for a total of 840 games.  In 2009-10, there were 6389 goals scored by 30 teams playing 82 games each, for a total of 1230 games.

So, goals per game in 81-82 = 7.7
Goals per game in 09-10 = 5.2

If we assume that point scoring was similar, that would mean scoring on average point scoring in 81-82 was 49% greater than scoring in 09-10.  So, Crosby's numbers (41 GP, 66 points) for 10-11 adjusted in this way for the 81-82 season would stand like this against Gretzky's (80 GP, 212 points):

Crosby: 192 points
Gretzky: 212 points

I think if you factor in Gretzky's much better linemates, there's an argument for Crosby being his equal offensively.  I think there's definitely an argument for him being his equal as a complete player.

NOTE: This is only speaking in relative terms.  I have all confidence that if Crosby went back in time to 1982, he could bury Gretzky's numbers.
 
I find myself more wondering what Gretzky could do if he moved forward. The thing that sets Crosby above Gretzky, in my mind, isn't his talent as much as his legendary work ethic. Crosby is a hockey-o-holic. The guy literally lives and breathes hockey. He's not even *interesting* other than hockey. It's impossible to hold a conversation with him that doesn't revolve around hockey, because that's everything he is.

However, Crosby is very much a product of his era. Physical conditioning, reflex training, and gear technology have moved forward in huge amounts between 1980 and 2005, when the two men entered the league. Crosby isn't just a guy with superior skill; he is a guy that's in such good shape that Gary Roberts thinks he's kinda insane. Would Gretz have the same work ethic, given the technology to get into that shape? That's where I think the line would be drawn between the two. It's not just points, after all.
 
Gretzky's 81-82 season was the greatest single season that any player in any team sport ever had.

Not taking anything away from Sid, but he does have some good team mates. The Pens can put alot of different top quality lines, much like the Oilers of the 1980s could. They are deeper in the center than the Oilers were.

Do you really think Crosby would score 50 in 38 games? The game was alot more physical  in 1982 than it is today. Could Crosby score over 215 points? Could he get over 90 goals? I think he could come close, but no way could he beat Gretzky. Gretzky always knew wherehis teamates would be and more importantly, always knew where the puck was going to end up, 3 or for plays ahead. If Gretzky moved into this era, I believe he would be as good.
 
GuineaPig said:
Toronto's not going to make it.  You don't have to worry.
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I'm worried Montreal is going to put themselves in a position to have to beat Toronto last night of the year.
 
4-1 loss to the Islanders...are you fucking kidding me? Now the Rangers have to beat both Boston and Philly just to keep the 8th spot. Guess that lack of offense is finally biting them in the ass. Got two words for Torts next practice...BAG SKATE!!
 
Fing Rangers pulled a surprise against the B's... I'm actually happy for the Rangers as I want them in the Playoffs, but the Bruins can't be giving up leads like that... too reminiscent of last year's playoffs.

In quite not so surprising news, the Pens contend for the lead in the East against NJ...
 
I thought the Rangers were done after they went down 3-0. Glad I don't turn off the games. Thomas was uncharacteristicly out of position on the game winner. Huge win, but the Rangers payed a huge price: Ryan Callahan broke his ankle blocking a Zdeno Chara slapper on the last minute of the game. Best game I've watched in a long time.
 
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