Official Hockey discussion thread

I'm suggesting that the defensive play on both squads is better - Nashville in particular, but indeed, on both teams.

Lindback isn't that good - look at his stats.

And yes, okay, you're going to accuse me of being intellectually lazy because I don't agree with you, because I watch a team and suggest that the team I favour has played so poor defensively that they have relied on their goaltender to win game after game? Fine.

Discussion over. You win.
 
LooseCannon said:
I'm suggesting that the defensive play on both squads is better - Nashville in particular, but indeed, on both teams.

Lindback isn't that good - look at his stats.

And yes, okay, you're going to accuse me of being intellectually lazy because I don't agree with you, because I watch a team and suggest that the team I favour has played so poor defensively that they have relied on their goaltender to win game after game? Fine.

Discussion over. You win.
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Lindback has a sv% of 0.915.  That's above-average.

I didn't call your argument intellectually lazy because I disagree; I've over and over declared that team performance is more important on the whole than individual goalie performance.  And I've never said Price has played poorly.  But I do think it is intellectually lazy to declare that team effects are the reason Anaheim and Nashville have won games (while their starting goalies have put up better stats than Price), but simultaneously say that Price is responsible for Montréal's success.  I said Nashville has a better d-corps than Montréal, but they also have worse goal support.
 
Goaltending discussions are always touchy are'nt they? It is the most unique position in sports, where they are'nt judged on the saves they make, but the goals they allow. A goalie can have the best numbers in the world, but if his team can get him the lead, then that really effects the light in which they are seen.
 
Nigel Tufnel said:
Goaltending discussions are always touchy are'nt they? It is the most unique position in sports, where they are'nt judged on the saves they make, but the goals they allow. A goalie can have the best numbers in the world, but if his team can get him the lead, then that really effects the light in which they are seen.
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I'd agree.  It's especially worse that for the most part, performances are uniformly excellent (the difference between the best and worst starting goalies is not that significant compared to the best and worst forwards/defense of the league) and the position is so integrated into their team's performance, it creates fodder for debate.
 
If you want an "overrated" goalie I'd say it's Fleury. He's stats, even career, aren't stellar, but he's practically worshiped in some circles. What the kid is, though, is CLUTCH. He makes the big saves when it really matters... but he is not the superstar he's made out to be.
 
Onhell said:
If you want an "overrated" goalie I'd say it's Fleury. He's stats, even career, aren't stellar, but he's practically worshiped in some circles. What the kid is, though, is CLUTCH. He makes the big saves when it really matters... but he is not the superstar he's made out to be.
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I'd definitely agree.  Outside of this year, he's been fairly mediocre for his career.

I do take objection to this comment though.  ~70% of hockey is played where the teams are within a goal.  Making saves always matters.  The argument that Fuhr should be a Hall of Fame goalie because he "made the big saves" is dumb because if he had been better than average the Oilers would not have needed them.  You really only see this argument crop up when goalies play poor to mediocre but still win because the team they play on is excellent.

Fleury won the cup in 2009 with a well-below average 0.908 save percentage.  It don't think it's a stretch to say almost all saves matter in the playoffs, and he didn't do that good a job making them.
 
Odds are it's Daniel Sedin.

Who should it be?  Sedin's not a bad choice.  A large part of Vancouver's dominance can be attributed to him.  Thomas wouldn't be a bad choice either, and might be the one I'd gravitate toward; his play has been ridiculous, and a good part of Boston's success this year, I think, can be attributed to his play. 

As for the third, the obvious choice would be Stamkos.  Tampa Bay's gone from one of the first to contending for their division.  Toews might sneak in (instead of Thomas) simply because of Chicago's (and his) turnaround in the second half, of which a decent chunk is contended to be from his leadership as well as his scoring.
 
Daniel's a hell of a player, but I can't see him being the MVP to his team because they would be in first place without him, just like they were in first without him last year.
But I can find something wrong with just about every contender this year.
 
mckindog said:
Daniel's a hell of a player, but I can't see him being the MVP to his team because they would be in first place without him, just like they were in first without him last year.
But I can find something wrong with just about every contender this year.
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I don't think you can take 43 goals and 104 points away from a team and still have them be in first place.  The team's got a Class A playmaking center in Henrik, but who's scoring the goals on his wing if Daniel's not there?  Burrows?  Samuelsson?  I don't buy it that either of those two could replace his production.
 
mckindog said:
They did last year.  :innocent:
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He put up 85 points last year.  Good for 11th place in scoring.  That's hardly a lack of presence.

Besides, Vancouver finished 5th overall last year.  So that's more of an argument for Sedin rather than against him.
 
Perry is single-handedly pulling the Ducks into the playoffs with mad goals lately. He plays in Anaheim so no one pays attention, but he would be my darkhorse.
 
Anaheim has really good players in Getzlaf, Perry and the Golden Oldie, Salanne. Salanne is the ONLY player in NHL history to score 4 game tying goals in the last 3 minutes of a game... all this season... all in the last 10 games or so.
 
The Rangers squeak out another one. 3 goals in their last 3 games and they won 2 of them and got a point in the one they lost. They love giving me more gray hair. King Henrick getting his 11th shutout. The Rangers also blocked 16 shots in the third period alone. I might be having a case of optimism.
 
My Sabres keep winning and still they just can't catch Tuffer's Rangers.
LC's Habs have all of a sudden appeared in both team's sights.
But mostly I wish Carolina would just go away.
 
Yeah, Lunqvist really is the lynchpin for the Rangers. I love Dubinsky. He can do alot of different things, and Callahan has been insanely clucth lately.
McKindog, the Whalercanes lost last night, so that is some good news.
 
Here's an interesting argument against Lundqvist winning a Vezina.  Everyone knows that Lundqvist is leading the league with an impressive 11 shutouts.  How many more would he need, assuming an average of 30 shots against per game, to catch up to Tim Thomas in the category of save percentage?











The answer's seventeen.  Seventeen.  I'll let that sink in for a moment: the guy with the most shutouts in the league would need seventeen more of them (in a row) to catch up to Thomas's save percentage.  Let's face it people: only one guy deserves that trophy this year.
 
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