KISS
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bearfan
Ancient Mariner
That would have been a better idea
I read an interview with Ace that he found some songs/demos from around then for the hard rock album on reel to reel when he semi-recently moved ... said he might release them at some point, which would be interesting and cool.
I just finished going through all the Kiss albums, I think for the first time ever. When Monster came out I couldn't get through it, but I managed this time. But I also figured out how I would rank them as I listened. I'll do a countdown (similar to the thread going on in the Maiden Chat forum right now) of the albums here if anyone is interested.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Sounds good to me
20: Carnival Of Souls
One of the big missteps of Kiss' career. I'm usually all for musicians experimenting and challenging both themselves and the listeners, but Kiss is really one of those bands that should stick with the formula. It feels like the band is chasing after a style with an audience that would never accept them while also alienating their fans. It also barely feels like a Kiss album and more Bruce Kulick's baby. The reunion was under negotiation while this was being made and it shows in the music that they were often just going along with Kulick's ideas. But that's pretty interesting in itself, I can't think of any other Kiss album where someone besides Gene or Paul drove the music. Although Gene's influence is felt quite a bit and he seemed to really dig the grittier style.
It takes the bottom spot because here aren't really any songs on here that I like. But overall I'm not a big fan of the grunge sound in general and Kiss doing it is even worse.
Favorite songs: Jungle is kinda cool I guess. Not a single song I'd ever go out of my way to hear though, which is why it's at the very bottom.
19: Hot In the Shade
It's actually a pretty close competition between this and the #18 album. They both have a similar number of songs I like, but this one takes the lower spot largely because of how long it is. Not only is it mostly mediocre half baked material, it's also probably the longest Kiss album. It's weird, the actual tour for this showed the band on fire and almost as if they were reborn. This album sounds like a band that is really burnt out. Most of the album isn't even finished, it's literally made up of demos. Some songs they didn't even bother to record a real drum track for and just kept the demo drum machine. That being said, unlike Carnival Of Souls, there's a solid album in there. I don't understand why they didn't just choose ten songs and really work on making them great instead of an album of mostly meh demos. A huge missed opportunity on this one.
Favorite songs: Hide Your Heart*, Forever, Rise To It
*Fun fact about this song, it was originally slated to be on Crazy Nights but was ultimately left off the album (no idea why), so Paul Stanley made the song available for other artists to record their own versions. One of those artists happened to be Ace Frehley! Kinda surprised they didn't play this with Ace when they reunited.
Solo album rankings:
4: Peter Criss
Probably universally considered the worst of the solo albums. It's neat to hear something totally left field of Kiss, but it gets pretty same-y. He's a mediocre drummer at best and his weaknesses really show on this album. It really lacks in any energy. Probably the biggest problem with this album is how sterile the instrumental music sounds. His singing fits the material reasonably well though.
Favorite songs: Tossin' and Turnin', That's the Kind Of Sugar Papa Likes
One of the big missteps of Kiss' career. I'm usually all for musicians experimenting and challenging both themselves and the listeners, but Kiss is really one of those bands that should stick with the formula. It feels like the band is chasing after a style with an audience that would never accept them while also alienating their fans. It also barely feels like a Kiss album and more Bruce Kulick's baby. The reunion was under negotiation while this was being made and it shows in the music that they were often just going along with Kulick's ideas. But that's pretty interesting in itself, I can't think of any other Kiss album where someone besides Gene or Paul drove the music. Although Gene's influence is felt quite a bit and he seemed to really dig the grittier style.
It takes the bottom spot because here aren't really any songs on here that I like. But overall I'm not a big fan of the grunge sound in general and Kiss doing it is even worse.
Favorite songs: Jungle is kinda cool I guess. Not a single song I'd ever go out of my way to hear though, which is why it's at the very bottom.
19: Hot In the Shade
It's actually a pretty close competition between this and the #18 album. They both have a similar number of songs I like, but this one takes the lower spot largely because of how long it is. Not only is it mostly mediocre half baked material, it's also probably the longest Kiss album. It's weird, the actual tour for this showed the band on fire and almost as if they were reborn. This album sounds like a band that is really burnt out. Most of the album isn't even finished, it's literally made up of demos. Some songs they didn't even bother to record a real drum track for and just kept the demo drum machine. That being said, unlike Carnival Of Souls, there's a solid album in there. I don't understand why they didn't just choose ten songs and really work on making them great instead of an album of mostly meh demos. A huge missed opportunity on this one.
Favorite songs: Hide Your Heart*, Forever, Rise To It
*Fun fact about this song, it was originally slated to be on Crazy Nights but was ultimately left off the album (no idea why), so Paul Stanley made the song available for other artists to record their own versions. One of those artists happened to be Ace Frehley! Kinda surprised they didn't play this with Ace when they reunited.
Solo album rankings:
4: Peter Criss
Probably universally considered the worst of the solo albums. It's neat to hear something totally left field of Kiss, but it gets pretty same-y. He's a mediocre drummer at best and his weaknesses really show on this album. It really lacks in any energy. Probably the biggest problem with this album is how sterile the instrumental music sounds. His singing fits the material reasonably well though.
Favorite songs: Tossin' and Turnin', That's the Kind Of Sugar Papa Likes
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Carnival of Souls is nowhere near my favorite Kiss album, but I like it a tad batter than you. But you hit the nail on the head that Kiss (not for the first time), was chasing a trend. Everything around that album was just bizarre, the album was finished, the reunion stuff started coming up, the album sat on the shelf for (I think) over a year .. in any case, I had a copy of it 6 months before it was released. When they released it, Kuilick and Singer were out of the band, but Bruce did a lot of promo for it, because it really was his album. They never toured for it .. just odd all around. There are some decent songs on it though, I would bump it up a few spots.
Hot in the Shade is probably my least favorite album of theirs, too many songs, nothing really stands out on the album for me at all. The one thing I will say is that it was a really good tour, one of their better ones in the 80s There were a a few other versions of Hide Your Heart .. Bonnie Tyler and Molly Hatchet did it as well as Ace. The story goes Simmons asked Ace to not release it, Ace told him to get fucked, the song was out for sale, he already recorded it. Eric Carr got his only vocal on this album and died before the next album. This was the worst of a band not really being a band and had not been for some time. Simmons and Stanley recorded pretty much individually and they took their songs and stuck a Kiss label on it. Simmons had been mentally checked out of Kiss for a while ... luckily with the next album, they became a band again ... briefly at least.
Peter Criss is my least favorite of the solo albums, he played stuff he liked, but it did not fit with a rock band .. his first 2 non-Kiss albums were in the same style. It did not help he was in a bad car accident before recording this that hurt his arms and he was snorting down tons of cocaine and God know what else around then.
Hot in the Shade is probably my least favorite album of theirs, too many songs, nothing really stands out on the album for me at all. The one thing I will say is that it was a really good tour, one of their better ones in the 80s There were a a few other versions of Hide Your Heart .. Bonnie Tyler and Molly Hatchet did it as well as Ace. The story goes Simmons asked Ace to not release it, Ace told him to get fucked, the song was out for sale, he already recorded it. Eric Carr got his only vocal on this album and died before the next album. This was the worst of a band not really being a band and had not been for some time. Simmons and Stanley recorded pretty much individually and they took their songs and stuck a Kiss label on it. Simmons had been mentally checked out of Kiss for a while ... luckily with the next album, they became a band again ... briefly at least.
Peter Criss is my least favorite of the solo albums, he played stuff he liked, but it did not fit with a rock band .. his first 2 non-Kiss albums were in the same style. It did not help he was in a bad car accident before recording this that hurt his arms and he was snorting down tons of cocaine and God know what else around then.
Yea Kiss has chased trends before but usually it still fits the Kiss aesthetic. Say what you will about Kiss doing disco, but it fits their style much more than grunge. Same with glam metal later on. And yea the only reason it even got released is because they were tired of people bootlegging it. By the time it actually came out I think most fans who cared had already heard it.
I Will Be There is one of the better ones yea.
I figured I'd be in the minority with my placing of CoS, I know this album has its fans. I wanted to like it but really it's the only Kiss album that does absolutely nothing for me.
It's also, AFAIK, the only Kiss album that hasn't had any songs played live. Even Elder material gets played on the Kruises and such.
I figured I'd be in the minority with my placing of CoS, I know this album has its fans. I wanted to like it but really it's the only Kiss album that does absolutely nothing for me.
It's also, AFAIK, the only Kiss album that hasn't had any songs played live. Even Elder material gets played on the Kruises and such.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Kiss really plays very little from the 80s-on live (on actual tours) from 1996-now. War Machine, Love It Loud, Lick it Up , Crazy Nights, Psycho Circus (the song), Heaven's On Fire is really about it (excluding Psycho Circus, Monster, and Sonic Boom songs they played on those respective tours .. and even then, just a few songs) maybe a scattered song here or there.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I have not gone to see Kiss in some time for 2 reasons 1) I just do not like the makeup deal with Ace and Peter 2) it has been the same fricking show, essentially, for the last 20 years
I did see Ace last year (and this year) .. he played Flaming Youth last year, cool to hear it live.
I haven't seen Kiss either for the same reasons. Also add a 3rd reason, Paul Stanley can't sing anymore. Though I have a little brother who is starting to get interested (which prompted listening to the whole discography in the first place) and would be up for taking him to a concert just so he can experience the Kiss show. I think that's pretty much the only reason to go see them at this point.
Ace's touring promotion is awful. He was in Denver last week and I had no idea until the day after. Would've gone if I knew about it earlier.
Ace's touring promotion is awful. He was in Denver last week and I had no idea until the day after. Would've gone if I knew about it earlier.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
That is too bad, I follow him on Facebook which was the only way I found out he was coming around. He generally puts on a good show and at least somewhat mixes up the setlist from tour to tour ...generally around 25-40% variation. Shock Me, Parasite, Cold Gin, New York Groove, Rocket Ride, Rip It Out, and Deuce seem givens every tour .. Rock Soldiers (which I never liked much), most every tour
18: Animalize
This is an album that had a lot of things working against it. The band dismissed Vinnie Vincent, who was a really good songwriter and guitarist, and replaced him with a mediocre guitarist who also didn't write: Mark St John. To make matters worse, Gene Simmons had pretty much abandoned the group by then in favor of a career in acting (which never went anywhere). The result is an album that is pretty much a Paul Stanley solo album with all filler. Gene Simmons' songs are rushed demos and Paul's material isn't that much more inspired. It just sounds like nobody was invested in this album.
Favorite songs: Thrills In the Night, Heaven's On Fire
17: Monster
I'm actually surprised that I ended up placing Monster this high. When it came out, I couldn't even get through the album. Right from the start I was turned off with the clearly 70s inspired riff. It all just sounded so tired and uninspired. That being said, I was able to get through it this time and it at least more going for it than the previous 3 albums on the list. I don't consider it a particularly good album but it's unquestionably Kiss and all the members are very much involved, even Tommy and Eric. A lot of it is extremely contrived, clearly going for that classic sound, but there are some decent songs. I would take something like this over a half assed album mostly made up of unfinished demos or an album where Gene Simmons is absent.
Some of the songs are laughably contrived though. Freak and Outta This World come to mind.
Favorite songs: Long Way Down (some pretty blatant Deep Purple-esque riffing on this)
This is an album that had a lot of things working against it. The band dismissed Vinnie Vincent, who was a really good songwriter and guitarist, and replaced him with a mediocre guitarist who also didn't write: Mark St John. To make matters worse, Gene Simmons had pretty much abandoned the group by then in favor of a career in acting (which never went anywhere). The result is an album that is pretty much a Paul Stanley solo album with all filler. Gene Simmons' songs are rushed demos and Paul's material isn't that much more inspired. It just sounds like nobody was invested in this album.
Favorite songs: Thrills In the Night, Heaven's On Fire
17: Monster
I'm actually surprised that I ended up placing Monster this high. When it came out, I couldn't even get through the album. Right from the start I was turned off with the clearly 70s inspired riff. It all just sounded so tired and uninspired. That being said, I was able to get through it this time and it at least more going for it than the previous 3 albums on the list. I don't consider it a particularly good album but it's unquestionably Kiss and all the members are very much involved, even Tommy and Eric. A lot of it is extremely contrived, clearly going for that classic sound, but there are some decent songs. I would take something like this over a half assed album mostly made up of unfinished demos or an album where Gene Simmons is absent.
Some of the songs are laughably contrived though. Freak and Outta This World come to mind.
Favorite songs: Long Way Down (some pretty blatant Deep Purple-esque riffing on this)
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
For Animalize, the two songs you mentioned are pretty damn good, the rest of the album is mediocre to just crap. Gene's like about putting his log in your(her) fireplace or whatever has to be one of the worst lyrics in the history of music.
For Monster, I really cannot comment much on it, Long Way Down is good, nothing else stuck with me at all and my interest level in listening to it again is damn near zero, I would probably put Animalize above this one just based on 2 good songs and a few so-so ones versus one good one and mostly crap beyond that. Having Tommy do the "space song" two albums in a row is just stupid and in a way insulting.
For Monster, I really cannot comment much on it, Long Way Down is good, nothing else stuck with me at all and my interest level in listening to it again is damn near zero, I would probably put Animalize above this one just based on 2 good songs and a few so-so ones versus one good one and mostly crap beyond that. Having Tommy do the "space song" two albums in a row is just stupid and in a way insulting.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I'll buy that, though on Animalize and really the 80s, I think Paul and the other two guys were trying (Carr, Kuilick Vincent, St John ) ... Gene .. not so much
I'll give Paul credit, I've never heard a Kiss album that sounded like he wasn't putting in any effort. 80s Kiss is a testament to that. I think the problem is that he doesn't typically have enough great material to fill up a whole album. He can write maybe 3 or 4 great tunes at a time, but he really needs the input from others to balance it out. The best Kiss albums are the ones that have strong influences from at least two members.
I'm sure Mark St John was trying but he was really just your average 80s shredder. No personality in his playing, no feel for melody, all style no substance basically. Another example of Kiss being more concerned with following trends than doing something that would benefit their music.
I'm sure Mark St John was trying but he was really just your average 80s shredder. No personality in his playing, no feel for melody, all style no substance basically. Another example of Kiss being more concerned with following trends than doing something that would benefit their music.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
With St. John, it is really hard to tell, I think he probably was trying, but just was not that good.
I agree, Paul .. and really Kiss worked best when they were a real band ... those early albums are fantastic and part of that was that they were all in and all hungry .. once they made it, it was just 4 entities all with different agendas and all succumbing to various vices ... the sex and drugs part more than the rock n roll part. Then for a time mostly just Paul, 2 hired guns, and a half interested Gene
But really with the possible exceptions of Creatures, Revenge, and probably the last two albums they never really got that band feel back ... so yeah, Monster probably was a band effort, it was just not that good.
I agree, Paul .. and really Kiss worked best when they were a real band ... those early albums are fantastic and part of that was that they were all in and all hungry .. once they made it, it was just 4 entities all with different agendas and all succumbing to various vices ... the sex and drugs part more than the rock n roll part. Then for a time mostly just Paul, 2 hired guns, and a half interested Gene
But really with the possible exceptions of Creatures, Revenge, and probably the last two albums they never really got that band feel back ... so yeah, Monster probably was a band effort, it was just not that good.