KISS

So complicated with a pick...

To be honest Gene did quite well there. Being asked to change his natural picking technique on the spot, he actually got it pretty quick. He was also clearly figuring out a line by ear from memory in the second part, which is also an impressive skill.

Gene has always been a good bassist. Check his early McCartney-influenced lines from the 70's albums. Never a virtuoso, but he never sought to be better than he needed to be for Kiss songs. Very solid with basic technique: I'd tell any bass beginner to watch the old Kiss concerts on the first Kissology as a great example of bass technique. Whatever else was going on in the show, Gene was almost always right on with the bass. He's a showman, but he knows the show fails instantly if the music fucks up.

Foro, thanks for the link, article looks interesting.
 
I was thinking the same thing. Knowing the hate Gene Simmons gets, I assume the video was meant to make him look bad but it really shows that he's a quick learner and has a good ear/memory.

I like his bass playing on the 70s albums a lot. They're very melodic and as you mentioned, very Beatles inspired. it seems obvious that he takes his performance very seriously, on stage and in the studio. That goes for Paul Stanley too.
 
I saw Kiss live with and without make up, original, and non-original members...love CDs from 70s through 90's, but...despite the fact they are business geniuses, musically speaking...I do not find them original. They jumped on the disco bandwagon with I Was Made For Loving You, tried to compete with Maiden and Metallica with a heavier sound on Animalize and best example is Carnival of Souls (I love this cd) where they obviously were competing with Grunge.
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
Who cares about Kiss being original? They make music for the sake of having fun. Nothing wrong with that.
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The reason I said that is, despite the fact I am a KISS fan, I am tired of Gene bragging through years about KISS in interviews as far as how innovative they were. As far as merchandising yes I agree, but not musically speaking.

BTW, I know some have a problem with Tommy and Eric wearing the same makeup as Ace and Peter. I am not one of them. What say you?
 
I don't care about new guys in the old makeup. They're better musicians than the originals, although the originals had their own style. Kiss are characters, new actors in an old role is no big deal for those two.

OTOH, Kiss can't exist without both Paul and Gene IMO. If one ever quits, the other should retire Kiss.
 
Paul Stanley vs Plastic Face: 1-0. :D

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/gene-simmonss-wife-slams-paul-stanley-over-prince-apology/
Gene Simmons's wife has slammed Paul Stanley after the KISS frontman apologized for his bandmate's comments about Prince.

Earlier this week, Simmons received backlash from friends, family and fans after calling Prince's death "pathetic" and insinuating that the iconic artist died from a drug overdose. Stanley denounced his bandmate's "cold, clueless" statement on Twitter, saying that he was "embarrassed" by Simmons's comments and offering his apologies.

But Gene's wife Shannon Tweed last night told Stanley via Twitter: "We all have our failings, but true friends don't point at them and throw you under the bus. Especially partners of 40 years!"

Stanley replied: "‘Partners of 40 years says it all. Don't confuse walking under the bus with being thrown under. My apology was right."

Tweed then fired back: "You can't apologize for someone else. It's not up to you. He feels the way he feels. He would never do that to you — never."

She also posted a picture of her with Simmons on her Facebook page, commenting: "Because, no matter others' opinions, I love my huzby!"

Simmons yesterday took to Twitter to clarify his remarks about Prince. He explained: "I apologize — I have a long history of getting very angry at what drugs do to the families/friends of the addicts. I get angry at drug users because of my experience being around them coming up in the rock scene."
 
Well, at least both don't mind being open in public, even if they disagree about something.

(just in case: with Plastic Face, I meant Gene's wife)
 
Just started my first foray into 80s Kiss starting with Unmasked....Initial impression: Very radio friendly stuff. Talk To Me, Naked City are alright tunes. Torpedo Girl literally made me laugh out loud...
 
Unmasked isn't bad. It has its bizarre moments (Torpedo Girl for sure) but some good songs too. I really like Talk To Me and Is That You. It helps to listen to the album along with Dynasty. Dynasty is a better album but you get a better idea of where they were going with Unmasked.

The live video from that tour is one of my favorite Kiss videos, maybe #1 even. I thought it was all on youtube but I can't seem to find it, here's the first three songs:


The first tour with Eric Carr on drums, really kicked the band back into gear after the disastrous Dynasty tour.

80s Kiss is a mixed bag. You could probably make one great album out of the five non makeup albums from the 80s, mostly because Gene Simmons was pretty much absent from all those albums and most of his songs are really bad. Most of what Paul Stanley did was great.
From best to worst:

  1. Asylum
  2. Creatures of the Night
  3. Crazy Nights
  4. The Elder
  5. Lick It Up
  6. Unmasked
  7. Animalize
  8. Hot In the Shade

Hot In the Shade being the worst album of them all, maybe only slightly better than Carnival Of Souls. But like Unmasked, despite being a weaker album the tour was awesome. They did longer shows and went back to some 70s classics that hadn't been played in a long time. Also an awesome stage show.

For a metal fan, Creatures is the closest Kiss got to pure metal.
 
Yeah. Interesting that the first single from Unmasked is Shandi. Really tells you what kind of market they were aiming for here. Tomorrow is also a pretty good song....

Also strange to me that there's studio musicians on this album. I thought it was the four Kiss members playing on all of the songs. Is this common for Kiss or the 80s output?
 
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Common for Kiss. They were doing that as early as Destroyer when Ace Frehley was unavailable (i.e. drunk) and they needed a solo recorded so they called in Bob Kulick (Bruce's brother who was going to be the original guitarist before Ace auditioned). It became more common with Dynasty since Peter Criss was considered unfit for the album by the producer who, ironically, was chosen by Criss. By Unmasked, he is more or less out of the band but they didn't have a replacement yet so he still appears on the cover and is credited. As for the other session musicians, it depends on the song I guess. Ace is barely on the album besides the songs he sings probably because of his alcohol problems but any song that doesn't have Gene was probably more because they were going for a different feel with the bass.


Other notable albums with outside musicians:

Creatures of the Night - Ace quit the band before recording, so like Peter with Unmasked, he isn't anywhere on the album. They kept him on the cover because while Vinnie Vincent played on the album, he wasn't an official member yet (there's actually more to this and is worth reading about).

Animalize - Mostly features new guitarist Mark St. John, but his replacement, Bruce Kulick, plays on one or two songs.

Psycho Circus - The big reunion album, actually barely features Ace and Peter. Ace only plays guitar on one song and I don't think Peter plays on the album at all aside from vocals on two songs. Most of the guitar duties are actually handled by Ace's replacement, Tommy Thayer.

Sonic Boom and Monster, while I'm not a big fan of those albums, are probably the closest thing the band has had to 100% full band efforts (no outsider writers/producers/musicians) since the 70s.
 
I see. Odd. Borrowing a guy for a solo or keeping some good recordings while members leave/join the band I can understand..But as for Unmasked it really sounds like Kiss never even met in the studio and that everyone in the band just went in with the studio musicians to do their own songs and then left :D
 
Mosh said:
Unmasked isn't bad. It has its bizarre moments (Torpedo Girl for sure) but some good songs too. I really like Talk To Me and Is That You. It helps to listen to the album along with Dynasty. Dynasty is a better album but you get a better idea of where they were going with Unmasked.

The live video from that tour is one of my favorite Kiss videos, maybe #1 even. I thought it was all on youtube but I can't seem to find it, here's the first three songs:


The first tour with Eric Carr on drums, really kicked the band back into gear after the disastrous Dynasty tour.

80s Kiss is a mixed bag. You could probably make one great album out of the five non makeup albums from the 80s, mostly because Gene Simmons was pretty much absent from all those albums and most of his songs are really bad. Most of what Paul Stanley did was great.
From best to worst:

  1. Asylum
  2. Creatures of the Night
  3. Crazy Nights
  4. The Elder
  5. Lick It Up
  6. Unmasked
  7. Animalize
  8. Hot In the Shade

Hot In the Shade being the worst album of them all, maybe only slightly better than Carnival Of Souls. But like Unmasked, despite being a weaker album the tour was awesome. They did longer shows and went back to some 70s classics that hadn't been played in a long time. Also an awesome stage show.

For a metal fan, Creatures is the closest Kiss got to pure metal.
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Asylum is too commercial to be at the top (although I do like the CD). Animalize and Lick It Up are heavier. I love Hot In the Shade. Songs like Betrayed, You Love Me To Hate You, Boomerang, Rise To It are killer. Even though Crazy Nights is more polished, I do like it. Saw that tour. Unfortunately, they only played Paul's songs. I like No No No and Hell or High Water by Gene.
 
SixesAlltheway said:
I see. Odd. Borrowing a guy for a solo or keeping some good recordings while members leave/join the band I can understand..But as for Unmasked it really sounds like Kiss never even met in the studio and that everyone in the band just went in with the studio musicians to do their own songs and then left :D
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That's probably pretty much what happened. It's important to remember that the band had just done the 4 solo albums and even though none of them were particularly successful, everyone (especially Ace, who had a hit single) probably felt that they could make it on their own at that point. Any sense of unity the band had was lost and I don't think they ever got it back.

Asylum is commercial but so is every other album from the 80s, minus Elder. The Paul songs on Asylum are among Kiss' best and even Gene has some ok moments. Bruce Kulick also rocks on it. Crazy Nights is also pretty good despite being really polished. I'll Fight Hell to Hold You is one of my favorite Kiss deep cuts. Lick It Up is good but too much filler and Animalize has one or two good songs only plus Mark St John was a horrible choice for guitarist.
 
SixesAlltheway said:
I see. Odd. Borrowing a guy for a solo or keeping some good recordings while members leave/join the band I can understand..But as for Unmasked it really sounds like Kiss never even met in the studio and that everyone in the band just went in with the studio musicians to do their own songs and then left :D
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Kiss really suffered from this, as you will see as you get further in the 80s (Revenge being an exception) .. it is like Gene and Paul (add Ace before he left) all created EPs and they were merged into one album.

Peter Criss played zero drums on Unmasked and only played Dirty Livin' on Dynasty.
 
Just listening to Music from "The Elder" for the first time. What in the actual fuck. If it wasn't because I put on this album myself I wouldn't have guessed this was Kiss. I can't even tell whose singing what tunes for the most part because of the different singing styles they seem to use. Maybe it's the title but "Just A Boy" lead the thoughts to something like The Who and their Tommy album. Odyssey - Sort of a Across The Universe feel to it. Only You was actually good with the robotic effects in the middle or whatever that was. Under The Rose surprisingly folky and mellow....The Oath is the first song to sound like Kiss and we're 8 songs in :D

OK, the good stuff:

Only You
Under The Rose
A World Without Heroes

The Oath is also kinda good and Mr.Blackwell could have been a cool little groovy track if they had cut into it and made it simple. Overall this album is a total mess ( "I" with its rockabilly gospel is particularly confusing to listen too) but not without some good ideas.
 
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Total mess is a good way to put it. It was the band trying to gain credibility with the critics and Rolling Stone types while totally forgeting what made Kiss great in the first place.
The Elder saw Kiss reuniting with Bob Ezrin (who produced Destroyer) but the actual making of the album was a disaster. Ace Frehley plays on most of the album but refused to take part in much writing and did most of his tracks at his home studio. Bob Ezrin was going through a cocaine addiction and was less involved (to say the least) than he was on Destroyer. The concept was never fully fleshed out and a lot of the songs are half baked. So not only was it a bad idea to begin with, but the album is also kind of incomplete.

I personally think it's OK. The Oath is an awesome song but stuff like Just a Boy really shouldn't have been on the album. I do like Odyssey a lot though. I think the tracking doesn't do it any favors. As you mentioned, The Oath is the most Kiss sounding song and it's toward the end of the album. It takes a long time to get going and while that works for most any other band, one thing that makes a Kiss album is the immediacy. Kiss isn't the sort of band you play sitting alone in your room with headphones. And really I wouldn't mind if it was executed well but it wasn't. It sounds like a party rock band trying to be more than that and failing miserably.
 
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