GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!

[Jer]

Am I the only one here who gets tired of these constant complaints on non-clean vocal work? I [...]
I guess I better skip such posts from now on. It is getting predictable.

Oh, boo hoo. If you enjoy listening to that garbage, more power to you. I think it sounds like absolute shit, and I could make the same complaint about the butthurt Cookie Monster superfan crowd always complaining that no one appreciates the “artistry” of barfing into a microphone.

Someone could invent a subgenre of metal where they record the sounds of themselves taking a shit in place of some other instrument, and no doubt it would have its own set of devotees who would whine that no one appreciated the obvious artistry of the form. Meanwhile everyone else would shake their heads and wonder what the fuck was wrong with those people.

I suggested separating out the extreme and non-extreme vocal nominees into separate categories up front, but that idea was shot down. So guess what, some people think that extreme vocals absolutely suck ass, and you need to figure out some way to accept that fact. My opinion on this is no less valid than your own. Ignore my posts or don’t, it’s up to you.

 

[karljant]

Mutter's opener gives us from the get go good news and bad news. Good news is that Wagner like orchestrated vein that Rammstein always liked to convey to some of their compositions (like Spiel Mit Mir, Klavier or even Heirate Mich) is in its full splendor here. Plus Till's basso and baritone continues to be powerful as ever and damn the song is really well put together. Bad news is the guitar sound... besides the downtuning (perhaps to match other successful acts of the early 2000's) they let go of that cold and edgy industrial tone a la Clawfinger for something way more vulgar and man did love the guitar sound of these dudes on their first two albums. Nevertheless both Mein Herz Brennt and the title track are really cool Wagner influenced songs. Then there are a couple of cool uptempo tracks: although being a bit too simple, Links 234 is really catchy and Adios is also a blast of a track. As for the rest... not that it's crap or even mediocre. But the lack of energy, attack, imagination or even pomp when compared with their previous two records is blatant. Although being far from a bad record this is quite boring stuff and was sadly the beginning of the end for Rammstein and stands nowhere near the masterpiece that My Dying Bride's sophomore is.

Superunknown is a really inventive and eclectic record. Sometimes it gets a bit too much all over the place and suffers a bit from lack of coherency. But that's a minor con I'm willing to take when I'm given so much great songs. Yet there's a common bond to almost every track: this is the band's saddest album to date. Not that it's absolutely depressing but there's a veil of conformity and sadness that covers the majority of the tracks here (with some exceptions). So we have great calm songs in Black Hole Sun, Fell On Black Days and Head Down, retro proto-metal (with massive doses of Sabbath and Zepp) reinvented in Let Me Drown, Kickstand, Limo Wreck and Spoonman and some strong sludgy themes on 4th Of July and the absolutely awesome Mailman. Overall this is an excellent album and although AK's metal is also interesting I'll go with Soundgarden.

So this one deserves an explanation: the only reason I didn't nominate Fear Inoculum was because I really don't think it's a metal album per se in its essence. I mean it has some metal traits but I'm really reluctant on viewing post Aenima stuff as metal. Plus I thought the criteria while accepting the nominees was much narrower (oh man how wrong I was!). On the other hand I nominated Anthrax's Persistence Of Time, one of the best thrash metal albums ever made as far as I'm concerned. But since Fear Inoculum was accepted in this game let me tell you what IMO we're comparing here: a fantastic classic thrash metal album (POT) to nothing more nothing less than my favorite album of the last decade. Not only that, Fear Inoculum is easily one of my favorite 10 records of all time. If we skip the 6th track experimentation, the remainder of the album is a fantastic prog/ psychedelic monument where every single second is absolutely mind blowing, especially when it comes to the title track, Pneuma, Descending and 7empest. So yeah... I'll vote against my nominee without hesitating and give it to Tool.

Regarding A Farewell To Kings, with the exception of Cygnus X-1 and some passages of Xanadu I really consider it to be a bit dull. 10000 Days also has its boring passages but is much more solid and the higher points are unbelievably awesome. So Tool once again.

 

[karljant]

Am I the only one here who gets tired of these constant complaints on non-clean vocal work? I realize people may not like 'em, but I do not constantly need to read this handicap. Non-clean vocals are part of the metal genre, by far and wide integrated in several subgenres, since the eighties. They often fit the music and atmosphere. There are several grunters/screamers I do not like but I'd never disqualify all music containing non-clean vocals, whichever variety is present.

It's kinda like 80 year old grandpas listening to Dio or Halford and saying: "Bah! this ain't singing! This is shouting and squealing!". The close minded approach of some younger listeners is a case study indeed (for those who have the patience to do so... not me for sure).

I guess I better skip such posts from now on. It is getting predictable.

My only surprise is you still have the patience to read them or getting annoyed by them... Like "The Dude" said: "Man that's like just your opinion"

 

[mckindog]

Am I the only one here who gets tired of these constant complaints on non-clean vocal work? I realize people may not like 'em, but I do not constantly need to read this handicap. Non-clean vocals are part of the metal genre, by far and wide integrated in several subgenres, since the eighties. They often fit the music and atmosphere. There are several grunters/screamers I do not like but I'd never disqualify all music containing non-clean vocals, whichever variety is present.

I guess I better skip such posts from now on. It is getting predictable.

I can understand why this would be annoying, but I also can’t say I sympathize in a game that invites players to comment on why they like or dislike something.

 

[mckindog]

My opinion on this is no less valid than your own. Ignore my posts or don’t, it’s up to you.

Virtual XI is a very good album, with a handful of outstanding tracks and some gorgeous melodies, worthy of many repeat listenings.

Easily better than a majority of albums we’ve heard in this game.

 

[karljant]

My opinion on this is no less valid than your own. Ignore my posts or don’t, it’s up to you.

Unlike the rest of your intervention, this part is really on point. 100% agreed.

 

[Jer]

Virtual XI is a very good album

To be clear, everyone of course has a right to say their piece. I may think you’re nuts for holding that opinion, and I have a right to say so, just as you have a right to tell me I’m full of shit and “Don’t Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger” is the tightest, catchiest, best-performed Maiden song of all time.

It’s the whining about other people disagreeing with one’s own opinion that I find ridiculous. Of course people are going to disagree. That’s life.

 

[mckindog]

Well, Don’t look to the Eyes of Stranger is shit, actually.

 

[Forostar]

It's kinda like 80 year old grandpas listening to Dio or Halford and saying: "Bah! this ain't singing! This is shouting and squealing!".

Haha exactly.

Stiff upper lip stuff.

 

[srfc]

Rammstein - no real interest in this

My Dying Bride - nor this

My Dying Bride out of generational bias only

Soundgarden - standard grunge comment applies here again

Atlantean Kodex - opinion given before

Soundgarden with the win

Tool - ok but not my cup of tea

Anthrax - opinion given before

Anthrax with the win

Rush - a Rush album I do own, Xanadu alone is enough to smash a lot of albums

Tool - see above comment

Rush with the win

 

[Forostar]

Oh, boo hoo. If you enjoy listening to that garbage, more power to you. I think it sounds like absolute shit, and I could make the same complaint about the butthurt Cookie Monster superfan crowd always complaining that no one appreciates the “artistry” of barfing into a microphone.

Someone could invent a subgenre of metal where they record the sounds of themselves taking a shit in place of some other instrument, and no doubt it would have its own set of devotees who would whine that no one appreciated the obvious artistry of the form. Meanwhile everyone else would shake their heads and wonder what the fuck was wrong with those people.

I suggested separating out the extreme and non-extreme vocal nominees into separate categories up front, but that idea was shot down. So guess what, some people think that extreme vocals absolutely suck ass, and you need to figure out some way to accept that fact. My opinion on this is no less valid than your own. Ignore my posts or don’t, it’s up to you.

It surely is a more limited taste!

 

[srfc]

Am I the only one here who gets tired of these constant complaints on non-clean vocal work? I realize people may not like 'em, but I do not constantly need to read this handicap. Non-clean vocals are part of the metal genre, by far and wide integrated in several subgenres, since the eighties. They often fit the music and atmosphere. There are several grunters/screamers I do not like but I'd never disqualify all music containing non-clean vocals, whichever variety is present.

I guess I better skip such posts from now on. It is getting predictable.

As one of the culprits for these comments, all I can say is, the only reason I constantly mention it is because quite often it's the only reason I dislike the material.

 

[Forostar]

the “artistry” of barfing into a microphone.

Someone could invent a subgenre of metal where they record the sounds of themselves taking a shit in place of some other instrument, and no doubt it would have its own set of devotees who would whine that no one appreciated the obvious artistry of the form. Meanwhile everyone else would shake their heads and wonder what the fuck was wrong with those people.

Barfing, shitting. If I have to take this serious, how did this happen?

 

[SixesAlltheway]

As one of the culprits for these comments, all I can say is, the only reason I constantly mention it is because quite often it's the only reason I dislike the material.

Well I think that's the actual issue here. People disliking entire genres of metal because of one reason - that there's no clean singing even if the material itself is amazing

Anyways, I don't really mind it - I get tired of clean/hero singing too but what matters most is if the voice fits the material or not. Sometimes I wish there'd be more clean singing sometimes growls or screams works better

 

[Jer]

Barfing, shitting. If I have to take this serious, how did this happen?

A lot of extreme vocals do sound like barfing into the microphone, or shoving the mic down the person’s throat far enough to hear their stomach acid gurgling. Not surprisingly, a lot of people find that offputting. Plus they’re completely non-melodic, so they’re inherently more limited in what they can offer vs. melodic vocals, or even vs. rap vocals, which they frankly have more in common with.

I offered up the shitting example as a comparable analog that could maybe give you a sense of the revulsion that extreme vocals cause in people who don’t like them. It’s probably easier for you to understand the other point of view if you can relate to it somehow. Imagine how you would feel about someone indignantly defending the artistic merit of pooping sounds replacing some melodic element of music that you like, and there you have it.

 

[LooseCannon]

It really does take a lot for some people to handle extreme vocals. I've gotten to the point where I don't mind the edge case stuff in some circumstances, but I don't know that I've ever heard a song where I think that the song wouldn't be better with clean vocals.

It's a pretty serious matter of taste.

 

[SixesAlltheway]

or shoving the mic down the person’s throat far enough to hear their stomach acid gurgling. Not surprisingly, a lot of people find that offputting. Plus they’re completely non-melodic

Funnily enough this would also be the description for some really really good brutal death metal vocals. if you can make people feel a bit sick afterwards you've definitely completed the mission. itø's the whole point behind genres like brutal death metal

Edit: Also it fits the lyrics mostly which are.....well gruesome and not pleasant, mostly

 

[Forostar]

Going to a live concert of a powerful band (with amazing drummer) at age 18* surely may have helped me appreciating the grunt.
Seen it from close, very small venue, loved every second of it. One year (and some months) later I saw the first doom metal band, opening for Maiden (only one song with grunts in their set). And then that same year, our band of the time had a grunter/screamer. He introduced me to Immortal and other black metal bands. ;--)

*sounded like this, but then without the huge audience.

Spoiler

 

[srfc]

Well I think that's the actual issue here. People disliking entire genres of metal because of one reason - that there's no clean singing even if the material itself is amazing

I don't see it as being any different than not liking dance music or hip hop because there's no guitar riffs.

 

[SixesAlltheway]

I don't see it as being any different than not liking dance music or hip hop because there's no guitar riffs.

I don't really understand that comparison I guess. Maybe it's me that's daft? Dance and Hip-Hop are widely different genres. Metal is still metal just sung diffently.