GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!

SixesAlltheway said:
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Ah! Also! When Mr. Diamond goes to his lower and rasp tone it's a blatant influence.
 
SixesAlltheway said:
Can we also move focus away from death metal vocals as the "perpetrator" here and aknowledge that there's a TON of absolutely talentless clean singers in metal as well. Singers who do nothing but wail in the same tone throughout and all trying to sound like Kiske and Dickinson? :D
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Agreed.

Also, I'm not a fan of Death or Black Metal but I have no issue with the vocals in that music, it makes sense there, it's extreme music. It's when the music is otherwise melodic that I have an issue with it. I also have no issue with someone like King Diamond, in any other curcumstances I'd consider them bad vocals but they are totally in keeping with the hammer horror/b movie vibe he is trying to create in the music.
 
I just find it funny that people who comment people commenting different vocals basically use the same approach to "diminish" each others opinion.

I'm not going to disregard the song based on type of vocal, but if that's the thing I don't like about it, I'm not going to pretend I'm open-minded and point the finger elsewhere.

Also, it can be vice-versa. There can be something I like but it's not going to make me dive-in that certain band/style/genre.

I actually had a better thought, but lost is somewhere while I was typing. What I wrote here wasn't what I was thinking. I hope someone can jump in and untangle this. Now I know how Christopher Nolan feels.

Bottom line - There's a bit of truth on both sides of the argument and Tenet is an awful movie.
 
Spambot said:
just find it funny that people who comment people commenting different vocals basically use the same approach to "diminish" each others opinion.
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Yeah, that's why I don't enjoy getting into such arguments anymore. It's all about being superior to the other and trying to establish your point of view as objective fact. I don't get it. If somebody likes something I hate or dislikes something I love, what consequence does that have for me? It's fine to explain what you like or dislike about it and exchange opinions, but I don't see the point of just finding creative ways to do the same bashing all over or get worked up about it when somebody else does it. Neither is a strategy for discussion, it's just boring.
 
Spambot said:
I just find it funny that people who comment people commenting different vocals basically use the same approach to "diminish" each others opinion.
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I'm not doing it constantly. One reply vs dozens of anti-"extreme" vocal comments was enough to utter my point. Just like the time when Blaze was constantly bashed in the late nineties, it was good to have some opposition.

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Furthermore, the anti extreme vocals bashing has been, most of the time, bashing. Jer's last post was of a quite different nature, more self directed. Way less provocative.

I hereby like to emphasize that I do not mean to cause harm, I just expressed I got a bit tired of it. I uttered my point, saw an interesting discusson and will gladly put the topic of anti-extreme vocals to sleep again. For a while.
 
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One of the greatest metal tracks ever


On the time tag of 0:23, listen to the guitars and the bass, they are both playing melodic parts, and then the heavy riff after it, again in the manner of Chuck does not anchor, it plays a melody....putting clean vocals over this would imply melody in that vocals and that would be a fucking mess.

This is why Death is far more valued than Control Denied even if that one has a "proper" vocalist. Chuck knew what he was doing with his voice.

Another example


Listen to the guitars carry the tune, and the vocals just emphasizing.
 
Zare said:
On the time tag of 0:23, listen to the guitars and the bass, they are both playing melodic parts, and then the heavy riff after it, again in the manner of Chuck does not anchor, it plays a melody....putting clean vocals over this would imply melody in that vocals and that would be a fucking mess.
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:notworthy:
Exactly what we still needed before this discussion ends. The why of the non-clean vocals.

When patterns in music are so complicated and fast, the grunt is a way more neutral (thus fitting) layer than the clean vocal. With a clean vocal it would become too busy and/or the vocal melody line would become highly ridiculous, and/or overshadowing too much of the music. Also the grunt can attribute to the darkness in slow music, hence its presence in doom metal.
 
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For the record: as of right now, “Crystal Mountain” is a contender for my favorite death metal song. Opeth’s “Blackwater Park” is another. In the latter’s case, clean vocals wouldn’t be able to muster up the absolute power that that song is instilled with. It makes it so much darker and so much more interesting.
 
I don't think the issue here is what people like, I generally dislike those extreme vocals as well. I just don't want to ram the opinion down people's throat that they're garbage. I don't espouse them, but you know what? That's OK. I'll comment on when they are particularly bad, or when they actually work for me, but otherwise I just assume people know my default position and we can move on.

That being said some people have really tried every album on offer and deserve a lot of credit for that, even if they aren't finding some of them to be appealing for whatever reason, I really salute those who are participating in such a deep way. I guess I just want to gently point out that the hope for the game is to find the positive, not the negative, and I hope we can concentrate on that a little more.
 
Wow. A lot of really close matches.

Neither album in the first match is one I see myself coming back to soon, but Rammstein was a little more to my liking, so they get the vote.

Atlantean Kodex are in the top 5 in terms of best discoveries of the whole game for me. I will definitely continue to listen to them in the future. Superunknown, however, is another iconic album up there with Ten and Dirt. It helped defined not only a genre, but an entire generation. Soundgarden.

The Anthrax album is a solid thrash effort, but I didn't find it to be all that remarkable. Tool takes this one easily.

The last match is by far the hardest. I love both albums for different reasons. Put a gun to my head, and I have to say Rush, so they get the vote.
 
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Forostar said:
I hereby like to emphasize that I do not mean to cause harm, I just expressed I got a bit tired of it.
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And my comments about the extreme vocal entries in the GMAC are essentially the same thing. It’s exasperating to keep hearing something that you generally hate invading and perverting something that you generally love. If I try to listen to new metal albums I can’t get away from this stuff — the music may start off strong, but then all too often some screamer or growler comes in and that almost always means I’ve wasted my time.

Imagine if 1/3 of the albums in the GMAC had Japanese schoolgirl vocals like Babymetal. @Midnight would be thrilled, but I think most of this crowd would pretty quickly get to the point of “oh fuck, here’s yet another pedo-metal album that I probably would have liked if it weren’t for the syrupy kiddie singing”. And then you’d have to endure people going on and on about the supposedly rich textures of Japanese schoolgirl singing, and calling you an out of touch grandpa for not treating them with the same respect as more traditional metal vocals, etc. Don’t worry, I guarantee that within 10 or 20 years there will be some new popular metal offshoot that will be like nails on a chalkboard to extreme metal listeners, and then the shoe will be on the other foot and most of you will join the “grandpa” ranks too.

I’m just being honest with my views on this stuff. If I think it’s garbage and I say so, there’s no reason that this needs to cause “harm” to anyone else. I just have a different view. I like some cheesy power metal, but I totally understand why others wouldn’t, and I don’t get bent out of shape when people complain about having to listen to yet another cheesy-ass power metal album in the GMAC. Those are their honest thoughts, and I’d rather hear that than some watered down, heavily qualified, safe-space-friendly version of their views. “While I respect the deep cultural and technical tradition of guttural vocals, my limited ability to appreciate them unfortunately impedes my enjoyment of this album” would also get old after the 20th time, and you’d know I was full of shit if I was carefully packaging it that way.
 
Japanese schoolgirl vocals will never be as broadly accepted in metal as non-clean vocals. Non-clean vocals are not a trend. They're here to stay.
Basically, your comparisons are not very good.
 
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Forostar said:
Japanese schoolgirl vocals will never be as broadly accepted in metal as non-clean vocals.
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People would have said the same thing about growling or power metal in the late 80s. Base attitudes change. And look at how popular K-pop’s gotten recently — you never know what might happen.

But my point wasn’t that Babymetal style vocals were going to be the next big thing, it was to translate my perspective to something you could more directly relate to. If you were constantly bombarded with Babymetal style vocals in metal I imagine you’d become frustrated with them too.
 
Assuming the results hold, this is a more disappointing round. The only result I’m really happy with is Rush knocking out a Tool album. Sad to see Atlantean Kodex and My Dying Bride go.
 
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