Coronavirus
- Thread starter Black Wizard
- Start date
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I think these anti-vaxxers are dumb people and reckless. Especially reckless for themselves.
Vaxxed people can also still spread the virus but they have such a much smaller chance to become seriously ill, to get into hospital or to intensive care.
In the Netherlands it is (still) controversial to demand people to be vaccinated. Could be a cultural thing.
This week, the first company with its main office in the Netherlands, LeasePlan, started it.
From an article, Google translated, giving some insight in the reactions:
LeasePlan is the first company with a head office in the Netherlands to ask employees to get their corona shots. They are not allowed in the office without vaccination. The car leasing company also says that the staff will return to the office after the corona crisis. "The new normal is back to normal," Het Financieele Dagblad (FD, newspaper) quotes the company as saying.
LeasePlan will not check whether employees have actually been vaccinated against COVID-19. Experts tell the FD that LeasePlan is nevertheless treading on thin ice legally. The company can bring employees into conscience by assuming they will be honest about their jabs. In addition, it is prohibited to oblige employees to be vaccinated.
In any case, the unions are not happy about it. The CNV union hopes that the multinational will review the decision as soon as possible. "Employees should never be obliged to vaccinate. LeasePlan is crossing a limit that is not acceptable to us," says chairman Piet Fortuin.
FNV union shares this view. As soon as members working at LeasePlan make complaints or ask questions, the union will enter into discussions with the company. In general, FNV did not receive many calls about mandatory vaccination. "That is why we assume that there are few employers who impose it among our members," said a spokesperson.
LeasePlan is aware that this is a gray area, but is not concerned. The company says it will create a "sense of togetherness" by bringing all employees back to the office.
Outgoing Health Minister Hugo de Jonge says there can be no question of a vaccination obligation in the workplace. But he does not want to pass judgment on LeasePlan's claim. "I don't know the situation enough for that."
"The law does not allow that," he says of a vaccination obligation, without specifically addressing LeasePlan. "And we're not going to change the law to allow that."
Worldwide, there are more companies that make vaccinations mandatory. For example, Google requires all employees to have had a corona vaccine if they want to go to one of its American offices. Facebook announced a similar measure. And France has amended the law in such a way that healthcare workers are obliged to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Until now, this problem has not occurred in the Netherlands.
Vaxxed people can also still spread the virus but they have such a much smaller chance to become seriously ill, to get into hospital or to intensive care.
In the Netherlands it is (still) controversial to demand people to be vaccinated. Could be a cultural thing.
This week, the first company with its main office in the Netherlands, LeasePlan, started it.
From an article, Google translated, giving some insight in the reactions:
LeasePlan is the first company with a head office in the Netherlands to ask employees to get their corona shots. They are not allowed in the office without vaccination. The car leasing company also says that the staff will return to the office after the corona crisis. "The new normal is back to normal," Het Financieele Dagblad (FD, newspaper) quotes the company as saying.
LeasePlan will not check whether employees have actually been vaccinated against COVID-19. Experts tell the FD that LeasePlan is nevertheless treading on thin ice legally. The company can bring employees into conscience by assuming they will be honest about their jabs. In addition, it is prohibited to oblige employees to be vaccinated.
In any case, the unions are not happy about it. The CNV union hopes that the multinational will review the decision as soon as possible. "Employees should never be obliged to vaccinate. LeasePlan is crossing a limit that is not acceptable to us," says chairman Piet Fortuin.
FNV union shares this view. As soon as members working at LeasePlan make complaints or ask questions, the union will enter into discussions with the company. In general, FNV did not receive many calls about mandatory vaccination. "That is why we assume that there are few employers who impose it among our members," said a spokesperson.
LeasePlan is aware that this is a gray area, but is not concerned. The company says it will create a "sense of togetherness" by bringing all employees back to the office.
Outgoing Health Minister Hugo de Jonge says there can be no question of a vaccination obligation in the workplace. But he does not want to pass judgment on LeasePlan's claim. "I don't know the situation enough for that."
"The law does not allow that," he says of a vaccination obligation, without specifically addressing LeasePlan. "And we're not going to change the law to allow that."
Worldwide, there are more companies that make vaccinations mandatory. For example, Google requires all employees to have had a corona vaccine if they want to go to one of its American offices. Facebook announced a similar measure. And France has amended the law in such a way that healthcare workers are obliged to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Until now, this problem has not occurred in the Netherlands.
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I'm perfectly fine with a vaccine mandate. My company has the freedom to associate with whoever they want. And if you choose not to get vaccinated, or to not share the details of that vaccination, then we choose not to associate with you anymore.
Not a fan of 'It's my right to crap on everyone else', but I've got to ask why it's not okay for unvaccinated staff to just keep working from home rather than fire them. Except that it takes the pee out of everyone who does make the effort and is then expected to spend half their earnings on travelling to work.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
While I agree with the general sentiment around vaccine mandates and anti-vaxxers getting their just desserts, let’s not forget that there are some people who would like to get vaccinated but are unable to because they are immunocompromised. If companies are unwilling to make reasonable accommodations where possible for these people who are unable to be vaccinated, then they are essentially being fired for a health issue outside of their control, which feels wrong.
Also, as someone who developed persistent tinnitus after receiving the J&J vaccine in late March, if a booster shot is recommended then I’m going to have to decide which risk is worse — possibly causing more serious damage to my hearing, or increasing my risk from COVID.
So it’s not quite as black and white as it may seem.
Also, as someone who developed persistent tinnitus after receiving the J&J vaccine in late March, if a booster shot is recommended then I’m going to have to decide which risk is worse — possibly causing more serious damage to my hearing, or increasing my risk from COVID.
So it’s not quite as black and white as it may seem.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
What is the rationale behind it? As we kill them all so god will know his own???
Probably trying to avoid a religious challenge to the human rights' commission.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
I am still baffled at all the pandering to religion(s) in the 21st century, but I realise I could be alone in this.
Well, I am also baffled by it, but there you have it.
Edit: I support people's right to believe how they want. Go for it! But I do want public policy made without consideration for religion.
Do any major religions actually forbid vaccination? Surely this is a recent attempt to justify personal feelings or political stance by looking for religious reasons to attach to it. Jehovah's Witnesses used to but as far as I'm aware they haven't opposed it for quite some time.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
It seems that, sadly, we have not made that much progress in this then.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Some words of wisdom from the Worksop scholar:
www.blabbermouth.net
IRON MAIDEN's BRUCE DICKINSON Says COVID-19 Is 'Not Just A Flu': 'It Makes Your Willy Shrivel'
IRON MAIDEN singer Bruce Dickinson, who tested positive for COVID-19 last month after being fully vaccinated, discussed his battle with the disease in a new interview with SiriusXM's "Trunk Nation Virtual Invasion". "I had my double shot of vaccine back in May, and everything [was] hunky-dory...
www.blabbermouth.net
TMI, man.
Courbet
Educated Fool
Well, even though I was fully vaccinated I tested positive and my experience was far worse far than the flu. I think (hope!) Bruce was making a joke and trying to appeal to your *ahem* manhood to get vaccinated.
Its sort of a running joke- any time you need a man to do something health-wise they do not want to do- tell them their willy will get smaller.
Its sort of a running joke- any time you need a man to do something health-wise they do not want to do- tell them their willy will get smaller.
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
I loathe Howard Stern but he's absolutely spot on here.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Howard Stern Says Anti-Vaxxers Should Be Denied Hospital Care Once Infected
The shock jock also mocked conservative radio hosts who pushed back against the vaccines before dying of the virus.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Yeah, I kinda disagree - I think we should be following standard medical protocols for triage.I loathe Howard Stern but he's absolutely spot on here.
Howard Stern Says Anti-Vaxxers Should Be Denied Hospital Care Once Infected
The shock jock also mocked conservative radio hosts who pushed back against the vaccines before dying of the virus.
However, I also believe vaccines should be 100% mandatory - none of this personal choice shit - because your choice doesn't just impact you. We wouldn't let someone choose to drive down the wrong road on the highway then whine "personal choice"; this is far worse.
Courbet
Educated Fool
Someone very close to me is a nurse and she had the same argument- "your choice to not get the jab- you accept the responsibilities. Therefor stay home."
I understand the sentiment and know its borne from frustration with them taking up beds at the hospital. I do think we need to prioritize those that did the right thing over those that made the choice to not get vaccinated.
(I think Stern is funny. He has some moments better than others but find him very entertaining.)
Yeah, I get that people think that's what we should do. I just don't. Medical triage is an important rule - we prioritize the people we are most likely to save. There's a good episode of M*A*S*H about it, when Hawkeye works on a North Korean instead of a lightly wounded American, and he was right then, even though that North Korean was actively out there trying to kill Americans.
The antivaxxers who live are more likely to change their views and get others vaccinated, which saves more lives, as well. There's lots of stories about that sort of thing. If they're denied medical care, you'd think it would make people smarten up - but I don't think so. I think it will just make them more entrenched.
The antivaxxers who live are more likely to change their views and get others vaccinated, which saves more lives, as well. There's lots of stories about that sort of thing. If they're denied medical care, you'd think it would make people smarten up - but I don't think so. I think it will just make them more entrenched.
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
The Scottish government are introducing vaccine passports from October. They will be required for entry into indoor venues with a capacity over 500. So you'll need one for attending a large concert for example.
Personally I'm fine with this. I'll feel much better knowing that if I'm in a crowded place, everyone there is vaccinated. However, I know a few people who think this is an attack on civil liberties. I think that position is stupid but hey, we wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for stupid.
I'd be surprised if England followed suit. Their government seems to be happy letting COVID-19 spread like wildfire.
Personally I'm fine with this. I'll feel much better knowing that if I'm in a crowded place, everyone there is vaccinated. However, I know a few people who think this is an attack on civil liberties. I think that position is stupid but hey, we wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for stupid.
I'd be surprised if England followed suit. Their government seems to be happy letting COVID-19 spread like wildfire.