Coronavirus

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
Yeah, I get that people think that's what we should do. I just don't. Medical triage is an important rule - we prioritize the people we are most likely to save. There's a good episode of M*A*S*H about it, when Hawkeye works on a North Korean instead of a lightly wounded American, and he was right then, even though that North Korean was actively out there trying to kill Americans.

The antivaxxers who live are more likely to change their views and get others vaccinated, which saves more lives, as well. There's lots of stories about that sort of thing. If they're denied medical care, you'd think it would make people smarten up - but I don't think so. I think it will just make them more entrenched.
 

Spaldy

Ancient Mariner
The Scottish government are introducing vaccine passports from October. They will be required for entry into indoor venues with a capacity over 500. So you'll need one for attending a large concert for example.

Personally I'm fine with this. I'll feel much better knowing that if I'm in a crowded place, everyone there is vaccinated. However, I know a few people who think this is an attack on civil liberties. I think that position is stupid but hey, we wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for stupid.

I'd be surprised if England followed suit. Their government seems to be happy letting COVID-19 spread like wildfire.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
77% of all adults are fully vaccinated in the Netherlands.

The one and a half meter rule (social distancing) will disappear from 25 September. However, in a lot more places a "proof of corona access" (= proof of vaccination or proof of negative test or proof of recovery) needs to be shown: in catering, on the terrace and in the culture sector. In public transport the facemask obligation stays and the horeca (restaurants, cafes close at midnight).
 

Edington

Let's Get Volatile
The Scottish government are introducing vaccine passports from October.

What's the difference between a vaccine passport and the card you receive after vaccination? I don't understand the need for something new to be introduced, I'm just gonna get my card laminated and keep it on me if I ever need to show I'm jabbed.
 

Boroking

I talk to planets…
Boris is aware that a large proportion of his support is an unpleasant mish-mash of the many colours of the right wing, and that includes a sizable amount of the anti-lockdown, anti-vax set. He's a pound shop populist with no personal or political courage so he will bend to the will of the mob.

He's so obviously inadequate but i fear he will win the next two elections.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
Boris is aware that a large proportion of his support is an unpleasant mish-mash of the many colours of the right wing, and that includes a sizable amount of the anti-lockdown, anti-vax set. He's a pound shop populist with no personal or political courage so he will bend to the will of the mob.

He's so obviously inadequate but i fear he will win the next two elections.

The mere thought of this fills me with dread.
 

Brigantium

General of the Dark Army
Staff member
I still suspect the party will descend even further into bickering and infighting, and he'll be ousted. That's what it's like at a local level just about everywhere.

He is courting the populist reactionary camp, but I think it's the really the self-interested backbenchers more than anything that he's appeasing. They don't care about principles of freedom, they just don't think anything should hamper the preferred lifestyle and wealth of them, their friends, their servants, or their servants' tennis partners. I bet they'd be fine if the increase in National Insurance was only for people on less than £50k per annum or if Covid rules didn't affect hospitality and entertainment chains, commercial property portfolios or large scale investments.
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
Ontario launched their vaccine passport system on Wednesday. Quebec has been running with one for a month now and their cases haven't appreciably spiked. They've come up some with the spread of Delta but not an unmanageable amount.

In Ottawa, 11 people were in hospital yesterday. 8 in the ICU. Only two of those were vaccinated. Cases seem manageable and overall in Ontario the fourth wave has plateaued for now.

And then there's Alberta.
 

Brigantium

General of the Dark Army
Staff member
I read a bit about Alberta recently. It sounds like there's a hardcore of anti-vaxx and 'doesn't affect me' there. I still don't understand how there's such a contrast between some areas and cases/deaths, though. What's the vaccination rate like in Ottawa and are many under 18s vaccinated? And are most jabbed with at least one Moderna dose? As I've suspected for quite a while, a recent study suggested that Moderna looks to be more effective than even Pfizer.

I live in an area with a population of about 280,000, and there were 75 covid patients in the main hospital serving the area and 12 people in ICU a few days ago, 11 ventilated. About 76% of over 16s are vaccinated in one town and 86 in the neighbouring local authority area. There are another two towns very close by with similar vaccination rates and another 43 covid patients in hospital within their hospitals.

Also my office has been sent home twice recently as staff came down with covid. It's always on the same section. Ventilation is appalling in their part of the office, though, and there's quite a few people who are very carefree and probably aren't vaccinated.
 

LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
I read a bit about Alberta recently. It sounds like there's a hardcore of anti-vaxx and 'doesn't affect me' there. I still don't understand how there's such a contrast between some areas and cases/deaths, though. What's the vaccination rate like in Ottawa and are many under 18s vaccinated? And are most jabbed with at least one Moderna dose? As I've suspected for quite a while, a recent study suggested that Moderna looks to be more effective than even Pfizer.
That, combined with a government that lifted all restrictions in July, and allowed full resumption of social norms. Ottawa is currently at 82% of people 12+ fully vaccinated, which has helped, but we also didn't list all restrictions. Pfizer is more common than Moderna here, but plenty of us are vaccinated with at least one shot of Moderna. I'm a mixer myself, Pfizer and Moderna.
 

Brigantium

General of the Dark Army
Staff member
That's an excellent vaccination rate. They're only starting on under 18s here really, apart from a few who had risk health conditions. It's a strangely manageable disease once you've got widespread vaccination and a few other precautions.
 

Brigantium

General of the Dark Army
Staff member
Pfizer is still 2nd best, I assume.
It will be. Some of the research suggested that in the longer term, Pfizer became a lot less effective, on a par with non-mRNA vaccines. Moderna has only been used a lot more recently here though, so it's not comparable. And this has all happened against a backdrop of Delta taking over.

A second generation vaccine is being trialled in the north west. It's been designed based around other components of the virus, rather than the spike protein, I've read, which might mean it's more resilient to keeping up with new mutations. I can't remember the name of it now.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
A second generation vaccine is being trialled in the north west. It's been designed based around other components of the virus, rather than the spike protein, I've read, which might mean it's more resilient to keeping up with new mutations. I can't remember the name of it now.

Beltas? :)
 

Brigantium

General of the Dark Army
Staff member
Interesting meeting at work today. Staff who think everyone should be forced back into the office because 'covid is over' vs clinically vulnerable staff.
 
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