Coronavirus

"Do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for them." (Proverbs 26:12)

Anyway, I wanted to leave this conversation a while ago already.
 
In Finland, the COVID vaccine is going to be voluntary, and I'm fine with that. My guess is that a large percentage of people here is going to take it anyway. If there is a small number of people who don't take it, for whatever reason, I don't think it's very problematic, as the majority has it. For personal reasons, I'm definitely going to take it, as soon as I possibly can.
 
Brigantium said:
I haven't heard of it in healthcare workers, but there are definitely a lot of people who won't, and some who also seem to object strongly to other people getting it. My parents don't want it, although they're fairly high priority, but say they'd get it if it means they can travel abroad again.
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That is somewhat disappointing, considering the huge sacrifices we are making as a society to protect those at greater risk of dying from Covid-19.
 
MS caused by a vaccination @Yax or do you mean MS was already "present" and then activated? I would like to see some scientific information about that. Until now I thought that most studies show no association.
 
@Yax
Vaccination and MS risk part 2

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Quadrivalent HPV vaccination and risk of multiple sclerosis and other demyelinating diseases of the central nervous system​

Importance: Case reports have suggested a link between human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccination and development of multiple sclerosis and other demyelinating diseases.

Objective: To investigate if quadrivalent HPV (qHPV) vaccination is associated with an increased risk of multiple sclerosis and other demyelinating diseases.

Design, setting, and participants: Using nationwide registers we identified a cohort of all females aged 10 years to 44 years in Denmark and Sweden, followed up from 2006 to 2013, information on qHPV vaccination, and data on incident diagnoses of multiple sclerosis and other demyelinating diseases. The primary analysis used a cohort design including vaccinated and unvaccinated study participants. A secondary analysis used a self-controlled case-series design including only cases. Both analyses used a 2-year risk period following vaccination.

Exposures: Information on qHPV vaccination was obtained through the national vaccination and prescription registers.

Main outcomes and measures: The primary outcomes were multiple sclerosis and a composite end point of other demyelinating diseases. Incidence rate ratios were estimated using Poisson regression, comparing rates of events in the 2-year risk periods following vaccination and in unvaccinated time periods.

Results: The study included 3,983,824 females, among whom 789,082 received a total of 1,927,581 qHPV vaccine doses. During follow-up, 4322 multiple sclerosis cases and 3300 cases of other demyelinating diseases were identified, of which 73 and 90, respectively, occurred within the risk period. In the cohort analysis, there was no increased risk of multiple sclerosis (crude incidence rates, 6.12 events/100,000 person-years [95% CI, 4.86-7.69] and 21.54 events/100,000 person-years [95% CI, 20.90-22.20] for the vaccinated and unvaccinated periods; adjusted rate ratio, 0.90 [95% CI, 0.70-1.15]) or other demyelinating diseases (crude incidence rates, 7.54 events/100,000 person-years [95% CI, 6.13-9.27] and 16.14 events/100,000 person-years [95% CI, 15.58-16.71]; adjusted rate ratio, 1.00 [95% CI, 0.80-1.26]) associated with qHPV vaccination. Similarly, no increased risk was found using the self-controlled case-series design (multiple sclerosis: incidence ratio, 1.05 [95% CI, 0.79-1.38]; other demyelinating diseases: incidence ratio, 1.14 [95% CI, 0.88-1.47]).

Conclusions and relevance: In this study with nationwide coverage of 2 Scandinavian countries, qHPV vaccination was not associated with the development of multiple sclerosis or other demyelinating diseases. These findings do not support concerns about a causal relationship between qHPV vaccination and demyelinating diseases.
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Another one from last December:

Vaccination in multiple sclerosis - Challenging practices (Review)​


Abstract​

Infections are an ever-present problem in the medical community, even more so for patients with multiple sclerosis (MS), for whom these infections have been linked to relapses and neurological disabilities. Even though it was believed that MS can be caused by an infection, research does not support this theory. MS is a chronic inflammatory disease considered to be autoimmune. Vaccination is proven to be one of the most effective means to prevent infections, but still it is surrounded by controversy in the general populations, as well as in the MS group. Vaccines are generally considered safe for MS patients. The exceptions from this, which turn into contraindications, are a medical history of allergic reactions to one of the vaccine components and immunosuppressed patients in the particular case of live vaccines. Given the presumed autoimmunity of the disease, some medication for MS is immunosuppressive and any live vaccine should be administered before starting treatment. Although there is still confusion regarding this subject, the current guidelines have clearer recommendations about vaccinations in MS patients and especially in treated MS patients.

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Forostar said:
MS caused by a vaccination @Yax or do you mean MS was already "present" and then activated? I would like to see some scientific information about that. Until now I thought that most studies show no association.
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MS is believed to be the result hereditary predisposition combined with the right kind of other factors. MS is an autoimmune disease and some viruses are known to cause the disiease to activate.

Anyway, thanks for the read. There was a case settled in the EU court which sentenced that a hepatitis vaccine caused MS. It's obvious this is something that's still debated. I intend to read your post more thoroughly later tonight. I appreciate you finding the info!
 
Not to mention doorstep clapping by all the people who are STILL letting all their kids play together, and playing host to relatives who can't keep away for more than a couple of days.
 
Brigantium said:
Not to mention doorstep clapping by all the people who are STILL letting all their kids play together, and playing host to relatives who can't keep away for more than a couple of days.
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This is also true. We could add to the list those who thought celebrating Christmas with relatives and friends gives you herd immunity. They probably believe in some sort of divine protection against the virus. :mad:
 
I hope what's happening in the Norwegian ice hockey league isn't a sign of what the winter's going to be like in Norway. Four out of ten top flight clubs are now in quarantine. In my hometown club, 23 people (including 18 first team players) have tested positive and their next four games are postponed.

I'm going downhill skiing tomorrow and I'm very glad the skiing resort is limiting the number of people allowed. Had to buy the skiing pass online tonight and I'm gonna bring my own food. The after ski beer will be enjoyed at home.
 
Oh ye gads, the plods are at it again:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

(Meanwhile in the real world) five miles is not a long way to drive in order to walk somewhere nice (and underpopulated), and a cup of peppermint tea does not constitute a picnic. The "spirit of lockdown" by this definition is apparently to stay indoors and be as miserable as possible. "Go to you rooms and think about what you've done ...:nonono:"
 
Black Abyss Babe said:
Oh ye gads, the plods are at it again:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814

(Meanwhile in the real world) five miles is not a long way to drive in order to walk somewhere nice (and underpopulated), and a cup of peppermint tea does not constitute a picnic. The "spirit of lockdown" by this definition is apparently to stay indoors and be as miserable as possible. "Go to you rooms and think about what you've done ...:nonono:"
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Lockdown eh? Bloody hell.
 
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