Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?

Forostar said:
You're right. The atmosphere seemed to be good early September, although Clive still might have been getting used to his new kit. Who knows what happened after Robert left. At least Clive didn't see a change in atmosphere until he returned from the UK (I find it hard to believe that he lied about that). Personally, I haven't heard Clive making obvious mistakes. I know that Steve could have judged this way better, but if anyone would point me out to a recording with an unstable Clive, I'd like to hear it myself as well.
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I guess that Clive's writing was on the wall at some point during the North American tour; the fact that Nicko (allegedly) stood in and did a great job at that could have been what made Steve realise whom he needed for Maiden.

Regarding Clive's playing, we also have Bruce's criticism of that. If I remember correctly, he mentioned that at one show he was playing so slowly that he jokingly brought a pillow on stage.
 
The Oakland boot has slow recording, original recording setup or transfer issue, not Clive. HBTN is replayed in Eb, or my guitar is out of tune (I don't think so)
 
So going through everything that all you people have put togther leads me to this. Clive was the drummer in the band until the end of the tour. Once we find out when exactly his father died of a sudden unexpected heart attack, and that information is publically accessible, we shall know with reasonable certainty when Clive flew home for his fathers funeral and returned a couple of weeks or so later to the tour, and therefore when Nicko stood in for him. I dont think any of the documented stories about this are a big deal other than the consequence of hazy recollections and human error. What we are looking for here are the facts. Not the reasons. RIP Clive.
 
Robert, I am grateful for you for telling us that we can find out ourselves about Ronald Burr's death date and you've showed nice photos (the book is a little expensive, but I'm still considering getting it), but I must admit I am not a fan of your stance on how things are documented. Certainly, we're looking at the facts, but this I find too easy:
Robert E said:
I don't think any of the documented stories about this are a big deal other than the consequence of hazy recollections and human error.
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People indeed forget things, people make mistakes.

However, sorry for pointing this out, but what you just said does not sound very emphatic towards Clive. The official biography, for instance, should not be a hazy recollection. Errors can and should be repaired. There was more than one issue of this publication to change matters. Didn't happen. Clive was an important member and he deserves a better description of his exit.
 
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I was there in the beginning, and there at the end. If we can get things properly documented officially, that would be the best outcome. If it takes efforts like this to get there, we go there. Even if we risk ruffling a few feathers along the way.
 
After one song I am already pretty sure it sounds like Clive. The patterns sounds the way Clive plays them. The toms, the distinct crash hits on certain moments, it's all there. Now playing the whole thing in the hope Bruce says something interesting. By the way, Bruce is one fire, well heard in 22!
 
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I don't know if he had wanted to get rid of him long before this actually happened, but, given that he "had to" fire a close friend in late 1979 in the person of Doug Sampson, a guy he appreciated and that had been with him even before he started Maiden, parting ways with Clive must have been a rather easy move in comparison.
 
No, Steve stated several times that he asked him to leave and that it gave him "sleepless nights". Doug then admitted (on the Early Days DVD and in other interviews) that it was the best thing to do. I think it was really inspired by Rod, who spotted a weakness in the band. But it must have been a terrible thing to do, really heartbreaking, since they had shared so much and had just signed a contract.
 
Robert E said:
I was there in the beginning, and there at the end. If we can get things properly documented officially, that would be the best outcome. If it takes efforts like this to get there, we go there. Even if we risk ruffling a few feathers along the way.
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Exactly. Many thanks for your input as an insider who was there at the time. It is really appreciated. :)
 
Forostar said:
@GhostofCain could you get that death certificate? I guess foreigners would need to spend more effort (and money?) to do so?
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If you mean look up the date of Ronald Burr's death, that process isn't very straightforward, even within the UK. The government seems to direct you to privately run records websites. They can give you an index number and then you need to order a copy, I don't think you can view it online.
 
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Okay, I've looked it up, and I they give volume and page number. I costs £9.25 to order a copy of the certificate from the general Register Office. Seems a bit extreme, though. Are there no local newspaper obituaries? There's only a three month period to look through.
 
Extreme indeed. I'm starting to understand @Albie more and more.
Perhaps the British Library has online searchable digitized newspapers (in which death statements are mentioned)? Even so, then we'd need to know in which paper Ronald Burr. Or not. E.g. in my country you can search for text (in this case a name) on an online website which searches through digitized newspapers.
 
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From personal experience, a lot of newspapers are slow to get things digitised, and some will probably never do it because they don't have the money. The library service of the local authority might have online records of newspapers, otherwise it's a case of going through microfilm in person.
 
Forostar said:
On the drumming: personally, I haven't heard Clive making obvious mistakes. I know that Steve could have judged this way better, but if anyone would point me out to a recording with an unstable Clive, I'd like to hear it myself as well (if only to have more respect for the decision).
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Good point - I'd like to know that as well. I had always assumed that Clive must have screwed up something really visible...like goof up the intro to Run to the Hills in front of a big LA or New York crowd, but I really can't find any evidence of that yet (Clive plays fine on all of the bootlegs I've listened to after reading this thread). I'm wondering if it was really behind the scenes logistical stuff (showing up late to soundcheck, missing hotel check-ins etc...) that was pissing Steve off....or we just haven't uncovered the "smoking gun" show yet where he cocked it up.
 
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soundwave said:
Good point - I'd like to know that as well. I had always assumed that Clive must have screwed up something really visible...like goof up the intro to Run to the Hills in front of a big LA or New York crowd, but I really can't find any evidence of that yet (Clive plays fine on all of the bootlegs I've listened to after reading this thread). I'm wondering if it was really behind the scenes logistical stuff (showing up late to soundcheck, missing hotel check-ins etc...) that was pissing Steve off....or we just haven't uncovered the "smoking gun" show yet where he cocked it up.
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We'll never really know what happened there. Even the fact that Clive might have had his thoughts elsewhere than on performing 100% with Maiden might have been enough for Steve to start looking elsewhere - considering this was during the make or break year of the band (first major USA tour headlining). The fact that Steve knew Nicko well from the tours together with Trust could also be a factor in itself - perhaps he just saw more opportunities in working with Nicko. Just like he did with Bruce who were then approached at Reading Festival and "reeled" in, so to speak. Perhaps Steve thought that getting Nicko in would be the missing link and that it then would be the band he had always envisioned? Who knows.
 
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That sounds very reasonable Sixes. One day, I hope that this (or anything else) will replace the crap (sorry, but that's how I see it) that is officially shared.

Now, how can we get this death date...
 
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