Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?

SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
That too, but he definitely also had some drum chops and some energy back then that Steve might have thought he could use in Maiden at the time.

There's even a fan calling out for Nicko in this one...wtf? See...Already popular.


Even Anthrax covered that one...

 

Valmir

Prowler
Now, how can we get this death date...
This might be handful

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007DEATH, BURIAL, CEMETERY & OBITUARIES
View Image
NAME: Ronald Ernest B Burr
BIRTH: date
DEATH: dd mm 1982 - city, Greater London, England


http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=BMD_DEATH&gss=sfs28_ms_r_f-BMD_DEATH&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=Ronald E B &gsfn_x=0&gsln=Burr&gsln_x=0&cp=0&MSAV=1&uidh=000

Could someone in UK try the 14 -day free trial?. I don't think I can do this, could be hard for me to cancel the subscription after the period, since I'm in Brazil.

This Ancestry site always does a good job, I used in the past to find my Italian roots...
 

Robert E

Prowler
No. ANcestry will not have the actual date. Only the General Registry Office can issue a death certificate which will give the date of death, place, and other details of next of kin. Anyone can apply to the GRO for such a certificate in the UK.
 

Robert E

Prowler
This is the required info off Ancestry site.
The date of registration is in the last quarter of 1982 and listed as Dec 1982

Ronald Ernest B Burr
Birth Date: 17 Oct 1925
Date of Registration: Dec 1982
Age at Death: 57
Registration district: Newham
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 15
Page: 1696
 

Lego

Shadows in the stars, we will not return!
From the Rock 'n' Roll Ribs 7th Anniversary party this past weekend, talking about Mission from 'Arry:


"My first beat I played with Iron Maiden was January the 9th, 1983- officially. I joined the band in June of 1982 which was unofficial. But that's another story- and you'll have to pay a hundred dollars to hear it!"
 

Lego

Shadows in the stars, we will not return!
Who knows- he could be mis-remembering, or maybe Clive had to leave the tour for a period earlier in the year for a reason that was never made public? Would make sense considering all the evidence thus far suggest that if he did leave when his father passed, it wasn't for more than a gig or two.


Rather unfortunate that most of the US gigs from June '82 have known bootlegs- only some of the Canadian dates and New York.
 

Lego

Shadows in the stars, we will not return!
It just occurred to me- Nicko could be referring to the Belgian TV mimed appearance where he filled in for Clive, who was ill, while wearing an Eddie mask. Not sure when in 1982 this took place, but it probably wasn't June, as they were on tour in the states at the time.
 

SixesAlltheway

Ancient Mariner
Or maybe Nicko was in know already that they were going to let Clive go at the end of the tour and thus he was already in the band "unofficially"....But yeah, now that you mention it, he's probably referring to the Eddie mask story.
 

Lego

Shadows in the stars, we will not return!
Or maybe Nicko was in know already that they were going to let Clive go at the end of the tour and thus he was already in the band "unofficially"....But yeah, now that you mention it, he's probably referring to the Eddie mask story.
Turns out the Belgian tv show was in April. Here's a theory...

We know that 1) Clive was ill at some point during the Euro tour, so Nicko filled in for a TV appearance. 2) Clive left the US tour for a very brief time, sometime after October 17th, and Nicko filled in.

Could it be that Nicko had also filled in for some of the Euro shows in April as well? If Clive was really too ill to mime on TV, it's certainly a possibility. Then when his father died later in the year, Steve called Nicko back to fill in again?
 

Valmir

Prowler
So in short, Nicko pull the rug from under Clive's feet, just to be in the band. I remember I was a teenager and just bought Piece of Mind in vinyl which on the cover was written (something like this) "dedicated to Clive Burr. Good luck mate". Very brief, very non-explanatory.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
Apologies for the delay catching up with this topic; things have been hectic at work.

Okay, I've looked it up, and I they give volume and page number. I costs £9.25 to order a copy of the certificate from the general Register Office. Seems a bit extreme, though. Are there no local newspaper obituaries? There's only a three month period to look through.
I agree it is a bit extreme and it makes me feel slightly uneasy to order a copy of a death certificate of someone I did not know.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
Turns out the Belgian tv show was in April. Here's a theory...

We know that 1) Clive was ill at some point during the Euro tour, so Nicko filled in for a TV appearance. 2) Clive left the US tour for a very brief time, sometime after October 17th, and Nicko filled in.

Could it be that Nicko had also filled in for some of the Euro shows in April as well? If Clive was really too ill to mime on TV, it's certainly a possibility. Then when his father died later in the year, Steve called Nicko back to fill in again?
Could it be that Nicko got confused with the dates?

Regarding filling in for Clive for some European shows, are there any bootlegs from shows around the time of that Belgian TV appearance? Did they play another show on the day of that TV appearance?

EDIT: According to the Iron Maiden Commentary website, they did play Brussels on 18th April, with Trust as support band. Trust were the support band from that date until the end of April, so Nicko might just have filled in for a TV show and nothing else. Who knows? Clive might have been feeling rough after a night on the lash and had to miss a TV show that might have been shot at an earlier time in the day. I can see how that could have pissed Steve off...
 
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Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Well, if it is June, that would mean Clive was either wrong, either he did not mention that he was replaced twice (and I'm not counting the Belgium TV playback show):
Once in June, and the second time when his father died. Let's be the advocate for June for a second and see how we can counter Lira's observations, but also let's realize he wrote this about the two weeks replacement which could be related to Ronald Burr's death. Now we're looking for possibly another replacement period, which can be way shorter:
i believe that a band must take 3 or 4 days off for preparations before do the replacement, or they'll cancel the gig.
That's not that sure. I don't think Maiden would easily cancel gigs on this major tour, with their major album. If Nicko could do it in 2 days or even 1, the band would go for it.
Also, i believe Nicko wouldn't play a full gig nor would execute any drum solo in the set.
Do we know how big the June sets are? There's NO pre 25 June bootleg info.
Then Maiden flew to the USA in May while Nicko stayed in Europe with Trust until his departure around June.
Around June eh? Perhaps early June, or late May? Time enough to join Maiden.
In USA/Canada, Maiden had literally no gap between dates. So instead of rehearsing with Nicko, considering their hyper tight schedule from May to August, they would probably cancel the gig if Burr couldn't make it.
Well, I gave you my arguments above, two days could be enough. E.g. May 30th and May 31st. Or 13 and 14 or 20 and 21 June. One day could be enough for a short set. Nicko knew the band for a while, surely knew the songs. The Number of the Beast album was and still is his favourite Maiden album.
3) 82 pictures

As been said earlier in this topic, Nicko replaced Burr in the summer. I've heard about that too, although i don't recall the source. So I particularly looked after Maiden pics from North America, 1st leg. That should cover the summer part of the tour. We have Burr in June, July and August playing with Maiden. And... he is happy! I don't think he would be happy after his father's death and knowing he would soon leave the band. And interestingly enough, there is this picture here from 21st September in Chicago, where he seems deadly serious. Found out that I don't have a lot of pics with Burr from that part and in all of them he seems fatter and serious. Coincidence or just my imagination?
So, where are the June pictures with Clive? Let's see.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Could it be that Nicko got confused with the dates?

Regarding filling in for Clive for some European shows, are there any bootlegs from shows around the time of that Belgian TV appearance? Did they play another show on the day of that TV appearance?

EDIT: According to the Iron Maiden Commentary website, they did play Brussels on 18th April, with Trust as support band. Trust were the support band from that date until the end of April, so Nicko might just have filled in for a TV show and nothing else. Who knows? Clive might have been feeling rough after a night on the lash and had to miss a TV show that might have been shot at an earlier time in the day. I can see how that could have pissed Steve off...
Well, he talks about playing his first beat with Maiden. That sounds more like real playing than doing a playback show, doesn't it?

I don't know which chance is bigger. Maiden and Clive never mentioning that Nicko replaced Clive twice (not counting that TV show) or Nicko confusing a month.
 

Zare

Automaton Sovietico
Some of them tend to confuse dates/years. On En Vivo Bruce introduces 2MTM as being from 1982. Also on a more recent interview he says 'when I jointed back in eighty-three, four'.
 

lira

Nomad
Well, if it is June, that would mean Clive was either wrong, either he did not mention that he was replaced twice (and I'm not counting the Belgium TV playback show):
Once in June, and the second time when his father died. Let's be the advocate for June for a second and see how we can counter Lira's observations, but also let's realize he wrote this about the two weeks replacement which could be related to Ronald Burr's death. Now we're looking for possibly another replacement period, which can be way shorter
When things starts to swell and a lot of questions waits to be answered we must choose a few and focus on them (I'm not saying we must forget the others at all). So I'll pick two things: 1) June 1982 and January 1983 dates 2) The Ronald Burr date of registration

Nicko supported Maiden on Feb-Mar 1981, Aug 1981 and finally Apr 1982 with Trust. It gave them guys plenty of time to know each other and blah blah blah... So when Nicko says "Unofficially on June 1982", it means Maiden had plans to drop Clive months before that or even during the 1981 Tour. Who knows and why not? Whatever problems addressed to Clive's playing were... Maiden just waited until Nicko's business with Trust was over and they took it from there. And yes that could happened in June. L'Olympia DVD shows the last Nicko's gig with Trust: June 5th 1982. Let's just say from this date on he was committed by mouth to Maiden, meaning he did secret rehearsals for a while and absolutely no live playing (although Ronald Burr's funeral gave it an exception state).

Forostar, I sense that Clive was put in the shadows instead of being wrong, not being sincere or given us not enough details. To be fair I don't think he even knew about the Belgium TV appearance with Nicko...

Back to what the band said about Nicko replacing Clive for a week or two on the American leg to attend Ronald Burr's funeral, this death registration is a good find. With 57 years old (birth date: 17 Oct 1925) it means Ronald died between October and December of 1982, right? We don't have the exact date yet but if we assume that Nicko really replaced him on the American leg, we are left with just a few dates of October, because it was then the last time they did USA. Next month Clive plays in Australia (he appears on TV - check my last comments), and definitely in Japan on December.
 
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GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
OK, so I got this information right from someone who has had access to a copy of the death certificate. According to the information, it seems that Ronald Ernest Bertram Burr died on Christmas day - 25 Dec 1982 in the East Ham Memorial Hospital Forest Gate, and Clive, his son, was the informant.

Therefore, there is no way Clive had to fly back from the States to attend his dad's funeral and that Classic Rock interview is full of bullshit. Case closed.
 
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