Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?
- Thread starter johnglen
- Start date
Robert E
Prowler
Hi guys!! Yes I confirm those dates and Clive was there with them when I left on the 5th September 1982. I heard no talk of changes or disquiet. They were having a whale of a time afaict!
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Fantastic set of pictures. I think I am going to flick through the book again this evening!
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Thank you Robert ! Very much appreciated indeed.
The new range (still a fortnight!) in which Nicko might have replaced Clive is:
05-Sep-1982 Reno, Nevada – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
07-Sep-1982 Boise, Idaho – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
09-Sep-1982 Seattle, Washington – USA
Coliseum
Maiden supported Scorpions.
11-Sep-1982 Portland, Oregon – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
12-Sep-1982 Portland, Oregon – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
14-Sep-1982 Saint Louis, Missouri – USA
Kiel Auditorium
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
15-Sep-1982 Kansas City, Missouri – USA
Municipal Auditorium
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
16-Sep-1982 Lincoln, Nebraska – USA
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
17-Sep-1982 Minneapolis, Minnesota – USA
Metro Center
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
19-Sep-1982 Rockford, Illinois – USA
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
Unfortunately, no bootlegs are known from this period. Also no photos or other clues.
On the 5th September: Clive was seen with the band before the gig. There's a chance he played the gig but it's not 100% sure, since Nicko could have taken over on the same day.
The new range (still a fortnight!) in which Nicko might have replaced Clive is:
05-Sep-1982 Reno, Nevada – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
07-Sep-1982 Boise, Idaho – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
09-Sep-1982 Seattle, Washington – USA
Coliseum
Maiden supported Scorpions.
11-Sep-1982 Portland, Oregon – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
12-Sep-1982 Portland, Oregon – USA
Maiden supported Scorpions.
14-Sep-1982 Saint Louis, Missouri – USA
Kiel Auditorium
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
15-Sep-1982 Kansas City, Missouri – USA
Municipal Auditorium
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
16-Sep-1982 Lincoln, Nebraska – USA
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
17-Sep-1982 Minneapolis, Minnesota – USA
Metro Center
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
19-Sep-1982 Rockford, Illinois – USA
Maiden supported Judas Priest.
Unfortunately, no bootlegs are known from this period. Also no photos or other clues.
On the 5th September: Clive was seen with the band before the gig. There's a chance he played the gig but it's not 100% sure, since Nicko could have taken over on the same day.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Not exactly but I read here that he switched to the Tama kit for the Beast On The Road Tour.
http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.php/clive-burr-23733.html?s=452fbe254944b92acfce47a65d797c9f&
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D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Meanwhile I got the Sacramento bootleg but haven't played it yet. I'll put it on YT soon since it's missing there.
soundwave
Educated Fool
On a complete side note....can I just say how awesome 80s era rock kits are? Seems like now every drummer wants to play on a 4 or 5 piece.
Robert E
Prowler
I am following all this very fair reasoning with considerable interest as i too was incredulous when confronted with the news of nicko replacing clive. It got down to a question of reliability. They both were/are phenomenal drummers, and maiden were lucky to find such a fine replacement if they deemed it necessary. Other bands have been far less fortunate in that regard. So welcome Nicko in january 1983 .... and who was first behind the bar dispensing large ones? Why Nicko of course.
Robert E
Prowler
On the subject of when Clive got his tama kit, i think he got it during the last few gigs before the band flew back from the USA to headline Reading Festival. He was struggling to get used to this new kit for a while as any working drummer might. I was up close and personal with Clive onstage at Reading and he was on fine form. Harry had a very fine line around band behaviour. Step over it and you were in trouble. Was always the way.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
And I guess that is one of the reasons of their longevity and success, unlike many other bands of the same era that imploded after years of excess.
Out of the band members, I have only met Bruce (in 3 occasions), but he seemed much more down-to-earth than all the other lesser known musicians that I have met over the years.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
@Robert E if I may ask, how do you read Clive's version? And what do you think of the following? I don't understand that Maiden never mentioned other factors, that were more "in favour" of Clive, e.g. the death of his father. Instead they focused on the partying and that doesn't seem very fair towards Clive. Or at least, it sounds very black and white, without recognition of other things, without giving a more balanced, realistic picture. Personally, I'd think it would have been very good, and honest, and logical, to mention Nicko as an important factor as well. They preferred him! Great guy to be with, great drummer. No, they never even said anything in the biography about Nicko replacing Clive on the Beast of the Road tour. The change of atmosphere when he got back (before he even had a chance to play) is telling a lot, I think. Although he had trouble with his kit, all seemed fine (atmosphere) when you were there. Everything had changed when he returned from the UK.
Please do read on:
This is the longest piece about Clive's leaving, originally published in Classic Rock magazine in 2011::
... Before we get to how he started with Iron Maiden, and just how good they were with Clive powering them along, it’s perhaps more pertinent to address how it finished. This is something that has gnawed away at Clive for the best part of 30 years. Much has been written about his split from Maiden, during an exhaustive US tour in the summer of 1982. And most of it, he says dismissively, is hogwash.
“I’ve heard the stories – that it was because of drugs or too much drink,” he says. “It wasn’t anything like that.” The truth, as it often is in cases of heavy metal musical chairs, is a bit murkier, a bit more acrimonious. It started with a phone call. He doesn’t recall where he was when he got the call, he just remembers that he had to get home to London. His dad, Ronald, had died unexpectedly of a heart attack. He was just 57 years old.
A US road map dotted with gigs lay in front of Maiden, but at that moment it didn’t matter, he says. “I had to get home.” Everyone seemed fine with that, he remembers. Go home, they said. Be with your family. Clive flew back to London on Concorde. Maiden brought in former Trust drummer Nicko McBrain as a replacement so the tour could continue, the show could go on. Clive and Nicko were mates. No worries. Everything was cool.
“I knew Nicko,” Clive says. Nice bloke. Good drummer. At a number of earlier shows, Nicko had dressed up as Eddie to terrorise the crowd. “He loved the band, he loved being part of it all. And the rest of the band liked him.” Clive was about to find out just how much. So Clive flew home, went to his father’s funeral, spent some time with his family, and two weeks later flew back to the States to join up with Maiden, who were criss-crossing America supporting Rainbow, Scorpions, .38 Special and Judas Priest.
“I got back and I could tell something wasn’t right,” Clive recalls. There was a meeting. The atmosphere was tense. There was change in the air, and Clive, still numb from the loss of his dad, could smell it.
“We think it’s time for a break,” they told Clive. And that was that. After the best part of four years, three albums – not just any old albums, either, but the three albums that many Iron Maiden fan will tell you remain the band’s best work – and suddenly the dream was over, just as it was all coming true.
Everybody knows what happened next for Maiden. What happened next for Clive Burr was a case of dusting himself down and starting all over again. He was grieving for his dad. Now he was also grieving for his band and the job he’d dreamt of since he first saw Ian Paice playing Highway Star with Deep Purple.
Back home in the UK the rumours were rife: it was the drugs that were to blame for his dismissal; it was the drink; that Clive liked the beer, sex and rock’n’roll just a little bit more than the others; that sometimes he had to play shows with a bucket by the side of his drum stool for when those hangovers became just a little bit too much... The rock’n’roll high jinks were getting in the way of the band, everyone agreed. Everyone except Clive.
Thirty years on, he says it still smarts to hear it. He was never a big drinker. Sure, he’d have a brandy and Coke – a Courvoisier and Coke, “my roadie used to get it for me before we went on,” he laughs – but nothing too debauched. No more or less than anyone else in the band. “We were like schoolkids in America,” he says. “We’d never been there before and it opened our eyes. There was a lot of parties, and girls were throwing themselves at us. We’d never experienced anything like it.” Clive – the lad who had been voted teen magazine Oh Boy ’s Hunk Of The Month in July 1980 – lapped it up. “Of course I did. We all did.” And then it was gone.
Clive flew back to London again, then on to Germany with his mum, and laid low. “I was too upset to feel angry about it,” he says. “There was a grieving period – I grieved for my dad and I grieved for my band – and then I brushed myself down and got on with it.” Just like that? “Pretty much, yeah. There was no real bitterness. Life’s too short.
“It’s good to set the record straight, to tell my side of the story,” he says, “because it’s not widely known. I think if you’re going to sack someone, sacking them after they’ve just lost their father is not the best time to do it... I guess they had their reasons. So that was that.” fter Maiden, Clive played with a number of bands in fairly quick succession: Graham Bonnet’s Alcatrazz (that lasted a week), Trust (Nicko’s old band), Stratus, so-called NWOBHM supergroup Gogmagog, Elxir, Dee Snider’s Desperados. None of them would come close to matching what he achieved with Maiden. And yet for Clive it didn’t matter.
“I just wanted to play. When I came home from Germany after Maiden, I used to put my hair in a hat, put some dark glasses on and play with anyone who’d have me, in the pubs around London,” he laughs. “I just wanted to drum.” ...
Please do read on:
This is the longest piece about Clive's leaving, originally published in Classic Rock magazine in 2011::
... Before we get to how he started with Iron Maiden, and just how good they were with Clive powering them along, it’s perhaps more pertinent to address how it finished. This is something that has gnawed away at Clive for the best part of 30 years. Much has been written about his split from Maiden, during an exhaustive US tour in the summer of 1982. And most of it, he says dismissively, is hogwash.
“I’ve heard the stories – that it was because of drugs or too much drink,” he says. “It wasn’t anything like that.” The truth, as it often is in cases of heavy metal musical chairs, is a bit murkier, a bit more acrimonious. It started with a phone call. He doesn’t recall where he was when he got the call, he just remembers that he had to get home to London. His dad, Ronald, had died unexpectedly of a heart attack. He was just 57 years old.
A US road map dotted with gigs lay in front of Maiden, but at that moment it didn’t matter, he says. “I had to get home.” Everyone seemed fine with that, he remembers. Go home, they said. Be with your family. Clive flew back to London on Concorde. Maiden brought in former Trust drummer Nicko McBrain as a replacement so the tour could continue, the show could go on. Clive and Nicko were mates. No worries. Everything was cool.
“I knew Nicko,” Clive says. Nice bloke. Good drummer. At a number of earlier shows, Nicko had dressed up as Eddie to terrorise the crowd. “He loved the band, he loved being part of it all. And the rest of the band liked him.” Clive was about to find out just how much. So Clive flew home, went to his father’s funeral, spent some time with his family, and two weeks later flew back to the States to join up with Maiden, who were criss-crossing America supporting Rainbow, Scorpions, .38 Special and Judas Priest.
“I got back and I could tell something wasn’t right,” Clive recalls. There was a meeting. The atmosphere was tense. There was change in the air, and Clive, still numb from the loss of his dad, could smell it.
“We think it’s time for a break,” they told Clive. And that was that. After the best part of four years, three albums – not just any old albums, either, but the three albums that many Iron Maiden fan will tell you remain the band’s best work – and suddenly the dream was over, just as it was all coming true.
Everybody knows what happened next for Maiden. What happened next for Clive Burr was a case of dusting himself down and starting all over again. He was grieving for his dad. Now he was also grieving for his band and the job he’d dreamt of since he first saw Ian Paice playing Highway Star with Deep Purple.
Back home in the UK the rumours were rife: it was the drugs that were to blame for his dismissal; it was the drink; that Clive liked the beer, sex and rock’n’roll just a little bit more than the others; that sometimes he had to play shows with a bucket by the side of his drum stool for when those hangovers became just a little bit too much... The rock’n’roll high jinks were getting in the way of the band, everyone agreed. Everyone except Clive.
Thirty years on, he says it still smarts to hear it. He was never a big drinker. Sure, he’d have a brandy and Coke – a Courvoisier and Coke, “my roadie used to get it for me before we went on,” he laughs – but nothing too debauched. No more or less than anyone else in the band. “We were like schoolkids in America,” he says. “We’d never been there before and it opened our eyes. There was a lot of parties, and girls were throwing themselves at us. We’d never experienced anything like it.” Clive – the lad who had been voted teen magazine Oh Boy ’s Hunk Of The Month in July 1980 – lapped it up. “Of course I did. We all did.” And then it was gone.
Clive flew back to London again, then on to Germany with his mum, and laid low. “I was too upset to feel angry about it,” he says. “There was a grieving period – I grieved for my dad and I grieved for my band – and then I brushed myself down and got on with it.” Just like that? “Pretty much, yeah. There was no real bitterness. Life’s too short.
“It’s good to set the record straight, to tell my side of the story,” he says, “because it’s not widely known. I think if you’re going to sack someone, sacking them after they’ve just lost their father is not the best time to do it... I guess they had their reasons. So that was that.” fter Maiden, Clive played with a number of bands in fairly quick succession: Graham Bonnet’s Alcatrazz (that lasted a week), Trust (Nicko’s old band), Stratus, so-called NWOBHM supergroup Gogmagog, Elxir, Dee Snider’s Desperados. None of them would come close to matching what he achieved with Maiden. And yet for Clive it didn’t matter.
“I just wanted to play. When I came home from Germany after Maiden, I used to put my hair in a hat, put some dark glasses on and play with anyone who’d have me, in the pubs around London,” he laughs. “I just wanted to drum.” ...
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Robert E
Prowler
OK, I have done some digging into the official recorded info:
Ronald Ernest B Burr married Klare Windheim in the 1st Quarter of 1948 in West Ham. They had a son Clive Ronald Burr born 8 March 1957 in Newham, East Ham, Essex.
Ronald Ernest B Burr died in Dec Q (Oct-Nov-Dec) 1982 aged 57 at Manor Park, Newham
Sources are the UK civil registration lists
Ronald Ernest B Burr married Klare Windheim in the 1st Quarter of 1948 in West Ham. They had a son Clive Ronald Burr born 8 March 1957 in Newham, East Ham, Essex.
Ronald Ernest B Burr died in Dec Q (Oct-Nov-Dec) 1982 aged 57 at Manor Park, Newham
Sources are the UK civil registration lists
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GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
That is brilliant Robert. I guess that means that Clive would have been with Maiden throughout the whole of September as his dad died in the Oct-Dec period!
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Thank you! Mentioning three months in the records sounds mysterious! Does it mean it is officially unknown?! And what is Dec Q? December or one or two months earlier? Well, then it's not that sure if he died in September or not. It's an estimation?
Robert E
Prowler
Name:
Ronald E B Burr
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1948
Registration district: East Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Spouse: Klare Windheim
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 113
Ronald E B Burr
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1948
Registration district: East Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Spouse: Klare Windheim
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 113
Robert E
Prowler
Name:
Ronald E B Burr
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1948
Registration district: East Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Spouse: Klare Windheim
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 113
no not mysterious. It is how the official records are kept. In three month batches. To get the actual date you would have to apply for the death certificate - which anyone can do - from the official registrar.
Ronald E B Burr
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1948
Registration district: East Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Spouse: Klare Windheim
Volume Number: 5a
Page Number: 113