Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?

Nicko was more precise? Hm... Can someone post an example where Clive wasn't precise?
I always suspected this was less about specific errors and disagreements about mechanics and stylistic choices. Clive fit perfect to the old Maiden, and he wasn't gonna go in the direction with the fully operational steam train heading down the dork's path to odd time signatures we all hold so dear.
 
I still disagree with the "perfect fit". There's at least one song that Nicko fully does better in my ears, Remember Tommorow. If Clive was perfect fit then it wouldn't be so, at least for me.
 
I still disagree with the "perfect fit". There's at least one song that Nicko fully does better in my ears, Remember Tommorow. If Clive was perfect fit then it wouldn't be so, at least for me.
Remember Tomorrow? For me Clive all the way. Way more explosive drumming. I also prefer his thundering tom fills. Love that groove as well in the calm parts. Both relaxed and tight sounding. Reference: Another Live/Japan bootleg 1981.
 
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Remember Tomorrow? For me Clive all the way. Way more explosive drumming.
This. Clive's drumming is way more agressive and perflectly fits the song. And, in my opinion, many attempts from Nicko to change what Clive did were not that succesfull, the "best" example being Running Free.
 
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Remember Tomorrow? For me Clive all the way. Way more explosive drumming. I also prefer his thundering tom fills. Love that groove as well in the calm parts. Both relaxed and tight sounding. Reference: Another Live/Japan bootleg 1981.

Nope. Sorry. Nicko plays it differently and I prefer it. Rock am Ring 2005
 
Nope. Sorry. Nicko plays it differently and I prefer it. Rock am Ring 2005
I kinda agree with this. Definitely prefer Clive on Running Free. Definitely prefer Nicko on Phantom of the Opera for obvious reasons. Remember Tomorrow kinda has an appeal both ways - I think I'm going to give the edge to Nicko's because it accentuates the smoothness - but frankly at this stage the song just doesn't fit the lads at all, there's very few setlists where it belongs, Post-Early Days tour. Some stuff fits in, some stuff doesn't, some stuff I can do without ever hearing again (COZ IMMA ROTHKID INNIT) - probably a lot of it is the feel Nicko brings.

Also guys maybe don't mix up the recent album mixes with how Nicko sounds live - that tinniness did NOT exist, at least in the pronounced way I'm hearing about, on the road. I think we'll all agree that most things we both love and are confused by pass through one person's active choices.
 
I really appreciate the time and effort you all put into solving this mystery. I've been a drummer for 30 years and Clive was my main influence. I even had my set put together just like his! I consider myself an "expert" in his style and its very different from Nicko.
I've had a pet theory about his firing that I'd like to share. As you know, drummers in the 1980s had to have massive sets, whether or not they used them (eg Eric Carr). This was, of course, for drum companies to sell more product since kids thought you couldn't be "metal" without a million toms or cymbals. This I know for a fact. When Vinny joined Sabbath, he was told sternly that his 4-piece had to go. He created his famous set with all the bass drums in the background as a result. Tony makes this clear in more than one place. Huge sets were a requirement for employment.
Clive was an exception. He was an official endorser of Tama, which meant he got his drums for free. It also means he had to do what he was told. Tama was telling its endorsers to pack the stage with drums. Massive kits were required for metal. Clive refused. If you notice on the Number of the Beast Tour, they made him put octobans and the "gong" drum to his left and right, respectively. He never played them. "Octobans" were those long, small drums Tama pioneered (see the pic I've attached). Clive's set stuck out among all the other 80s metal sets and Tama wasn't happy.
Every single boot I've heard from 1982 shows Clive playing very well. No performance decline at all. There's no Nicko anywhere. His father didn't die until the end of the year, so that theory's been removed. Since his playing was demonstrably consistent, that theory is also gone. There's also no "getting used" to a new set. Drums are easily adjustable. There's no "break in" period. Even more, his tremendous technique puts the "he's not prog" theory down too. He'd be the best fit for that sort of music. No disrespect to NM, but Clive's technique was extraordinary for metal, especially his use of ghost notes that (apparently), only drummers can hear. His innovation of the very fast 16th notes on the hi-hat proves this. He was a tremendous, highly technical player.
My theory is that Tama drums, a huge music company that owns many others (such as Ibanez), was sick of Clive's refusal to bow to their demands. Paiste felt the same. Tama was a fairly new firm (1974) in a fiercely competitive industry. I distinctly recall this being an issue at the time, since I followed Clive's career like a hawk. I remember my drum teacher (Chris Goger from TT Quick) telling me about it. Given the size of the company, its influence in Japan and the possibility that he'd be dropped as an endorser, he was removed. Nicko came into Maiden already with a Sonor endorsement. That's odd. It had to have been planned ahead of time and Sonor rarely gives endorsement deals. Of course, NM had about 9 million drums around him. Sonor drums are about 4x the price of every other company because they're hand made.
Corporate backing is essential in the music business and having Clive dropped by Tama would have cost the band quite a bit, not just Clive. It just so happens that Murray often played Ibanez guitars. Losing an endorsement from a huge company is costly, embarrassing and leads to lots of equipment issues and bills later on. Back then, sponsorships were shared by the band equally. Tama was no different. In other words, he was fired because Maiden was dropped by a huge sponsor.
This is just my personal opinion, do with it as you will. I know of no one else who holds this opinion and I have no direct evidence other than industry standards and precedent. All the other theories have collapsed. Can there be truth to this? Nicko having a ready-made deal with Sonor is, however, a potent piece of evidence. Endorsements are huge for a new band and Maiden could ill afford to have the Japanese music giant against them.
 

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Bruce's autobiography addresses Clive being fired and mentions his playing live not being as precise as it should have been, which was driving Steve nuts.
 
Interesting theory. I cannot say I do not believe what you say RIPClive. I do know I agree 100 percent with this:
Every single boot I've heard from 1982 shows Clive playing very well. No performance decline at all. There's no Nicko anywhere. His father didn't die until the end of the year, so that theory's been removed. Since his playing was demonstrably consistent, that theory is also gone. There's also no "getting used" to a new set. Drums are easily adjustable. There's no "break in" period. Even more, his tremendous technique puts the "he's not prog" theory down too. He'd be the best fit for that sort of music. No disrespect to NM, but Clive's technique was extraordinary for metal, especially his use of ghost notes that (apparently), only drummers can hear. His innovation of the very fast 16th notes on the hi-hat proves this. He was a tremendous, highly technical player.
Hear, hear! Whatever Bruce says or anyone else: "his playing was not consistent or precise" has become a convenient, official reason. I am not buying it, I have heard the bootlegs and there is no decline. His live playing was more consistent than Nicko's.
 
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No doubt that Steve preferred Nicko to have in the band. But that sounds a whole lot better than "Clive did not play well enough".

He liked Nicko (playing & character) a lot. Combine that with "business" reasons, e.g. such as the theory above, which is difficult to break down imo, and that could be it.
 
Nicko came into Maiden already with a Sonor endorsement. That's odd. It had to have been planned ahead of time and Sonor rarely gives endorsement deals. Of course, NM had about 9 million drums around him. Sonor drums are about 4x the price of every other company because they're hand made.

All the other theories have collapsed. Can there be truth to this? Nicko having a ready-made deal with Sonor is, however, a potent piece of evidence. Endorsements are huge for a new band and Maiden could ill afford to have the Japanese music giant against them.

Except Nicko wasn't a nobody when he joined Iron Maiden. He was already well-established, having previously played with Pat Travers and the French hard rock band Trust who were gaining ground and popularity in the late 70's and early 80s. If you check out the live show that Trust did at Rockpalast, Cologne on YouTube, you'll see that Nicko were already playing a large Sonor kit. So it's possible that Nicko already had an endorsement from Sonor when he joined Iron Maiden, that he got either while playing with Trust or perhaps through playing with Travers.
 
Actually Nicko had a different kind of endorsment with Sonor before joining Maiden. He spoke about this at NAMM, I believe. He didn't get anything for free from them until joining Maiden.
 
Hear, hear! Whatever Bruce says or anyone else: "his playing was not consistent or precise" has become a convenient, official reason. I am not buying it, I have heard the bootlegs and there is no decline. His live playing was more consistent than Nicko's.
What happens if it was the reason though? It doesn't matter what you think of his playing from listening to bootlegs. If this is how Steve felt, even incorrectly, then this is what he felt. You can believe this to be objectively incorrect if you want; this doesn't disqualify this being the reason given then & now.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think i remember from Bruce's book him mentioning that Steve's relationship with Clive deteriorated over the course of the tour to the point where he was only too happy to fire him at the end of it, with another excellent drummer waiting in the wings.
 
Actually Nicko had a different kind of endorsment with Sonor before joining Maiden. He spoke about this at NAMM, I believe. He didn't get anything for free from them until joining Maiden.
He didn't have any sort of endorsement. He tried to get one because why not, but was told off because he was nowhere near big enough of a name to have a free set, so he just went out and bought the biggest Sonor set they had on offer in the catalog as big kits were in vogue and he was told to get one to replace his old five piece. That set I believe is the same one he eventually used to record Piece of Mind.

So yeah. Any theorycrafting about big kits being the sticking point is really just that. Clive's set also was pretty big even without the added octobans and gong drum so I really doubt that was a big deal. If anything, he probably had them with him because Tama gave them to him for free and he felt obligated to at least have them in his setup.
 
He didn't have any sort of endorsement. He tried to get one because why not, but was told off because he was nowhere near big enough of a name to have a free set, so he just went out and bought the biggest Sonor set they had on offer in the catalog as big kits were in vogue and he was told to get one to replace his old five piece. That set I believe is the same one he eventually used to record Piece of Mind.

So yeah. Any theorycrafting about big kits being the sticking point is really just that. Clive's set also was pretty big even without the added octobans and gong drum so I really doubt that was a big deal. If anything, he probably had them with him because Tama gave them to him for free and he felt obligated to at least have them in his setup.

I think he bought two of those big Sonor sets, because the first one was seized by Pat Travers after he left. That was also the reason why they fell out and didn't speak to eachother for years.
 
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