Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?

Diesel 11

As you scream into the web of silence...
you will not make me change my made up mind
wed genius is proof of my superior view!
You can quote away all you want mr11!!
Straight from Bruce's book:

The opening drum sequence to 'Where Eagles Dare' I can take partial responsibility for. It was based on Cozy Powell's intro to 'Stargazer', by Rainbow, although it's the effect, rather than the notes played, that I was after. We toyed with different things, and I mentioned that there was a terrific tom-tom fill I remembered on an obscure hit from a guitarist called Gordon Giltrap.
'Oh yeah, "Heartstrong". That was me.'
Of course it was - classic McBrain drumming. We took that fill and infilled it with triplets before it goes into the main riff. The bass-drum part was extreme. It was like Woody Woodpecker having an epileptic attack.
'You can't play that on a single bass drum. It needs a double pedal,' Nicko declared. I was inclined to agree with him, but that wasn't the point.
'I bet you Ian Paice could do it.'
The work rate required to get his single foot to play the pattern was extraordinary. To his eternal credit, he worked at it for days and succeeded.
'Fuck me, I'm glad that's done. We aren't ever gonna do that live - fucking hell.'
We ended up opening the show with it every night. Oops.
Maybe it wasn't Steve's relentlessness that got them there (though I thought I heard about that somewhere - maybe not), but anyway, you're still wrong.
 

Diesel 11

As you scream into the web of silence...
I was alive then where were you mr11??
Being alive then means nothing. Were you actually there at the studio when they made it? No? I didn't think so. Also, FYI I was not alive back then, but that doesn't matter much if at all, because educating yourself on what happened via sources from people who were actually there will get you farther in life than simply being alive at the time it was recorded and making blind supposition without any evidence backing them up. And if you really are that old, then goddamn have you not matured with age.

But okay let us agree to agree that i am more correct!!i
No.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
There are a couple of Metallica-like moments on Burr albums where drums are actually following the rhythm guitars and not bass - most apparent on the Twilight Zone. There are no such moments post 1982.*
Haven't heard that song in recent times but the way you describe this, that's not per se Metallica like. Such thing can be a choice, and not always need to be mistake. Steve and Nicko developed their own rhythmic relationship, crafting their rhythms, especially in Steve's songs, and formed their specific manner of doing things. It has not much to do with the quality of Clive. It has more to do with a choice of what a drummer needs to do in someone's view.

*Have you analyzed all drum parts to make such a bold statement?
 

srfc

Ancient Mariner
Clive deserves a better role in the official Maiden story. More credit. They could have corrected this when Clive died (or earlier) but they never did. Sad.
Bruce has said Clive is the best drummer Maiden ever had several times. I suspect it's probably unique in world music that a member of a band praises a former member as being better than the current member who has been on the drum stool for 36 years.
 

Xennon

Educated Fool
Bruce has said Clive is the best drummer Maiden ever had several times. I suspect it's probably unique in world music that a member of a band praises a former member as being better than the current member who has been on the drum stool for 36 years.
well, Nicko said many things about Bruce as well. :)

I also think that Nicko is better than Clive. People tend to miss Nicko's quality, at least because minimalism is not common in heavy metal drumming. He is a true minimalist in the sense that he works perfectly to make us pay attention to the music, just the music instead of how quick he gets, how complicated he plays and so on.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
What I am actually certain that back in 1983 he was in another league compared to Burr. Clive is great but McBrain is world class. I know people on this forum don't share that opinion with me, but Steve Harris does.
Whilst I really like Clive Burr's swing feel, I also prefer Nicko's drumming.
 

Ruflux

Ancient Mariner
Nicko is far subtler than Clive. Subtlety is often lost on metal fans.
I implore you to go watch Maiden England and make that argument. Especially compare The Prisoner to how Clive plays it. I would absolutely call Clive's take on the song far more subtle and Nicko's playing in general getting pretty wild and out there live. He's definitely calmed down since and in the studio he always has been more reserved, but the man was an absolute maniac live. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I do know people who had some issue with it.

That said, I still easily consider Nicko better than Clive. Clive felt like he was at the peak of his game when he was with Maiden, Nicko just kept upping his with practically every album they did in the 80s. And even in recent years he's unbelievably good even with age. That longevity to me shows he's not even pushing too far, he's just that good as a drummer.
 

Zare

Automaton Sovietico
Haven't heard that song in recent times but the way you describe this, that's not per se Metallica like
No it is just a stylistic choice mostly used by Metallica, so it was for example.

It has not much to do with the quality of Clive. It has more to do with a choice of what a drummer needs to do in
No it has not much to do with the quality of what Clive does, it could have something to do with Harris wanting something other and Clive not going by it. From this perspective McBrain is far more professional and used to keeping on with the demands of the bassist because he was a session drummer. A session drummer does not have choice in what he plays, bottom line.

*Have you analyzed all drum parts to make such a bold statement?
Of course not :) But you also know that I know 99% of Maiden's material ever recorded in any way, by heart. So I strongly presume my statement is correct. Also, I have never seen anyone back up the claim that Burr was technically on McBrain level either. I mean if someone here says Smith is technically on Malmsteen level I'd expect to see some continuous fast sweep arpeggios, not the talk how his music fits the genre better.

Bruce has said Clive is the best drummer Maiden ever had several times. I suspect it's probably unique in world music that a member of a band praises a former member as being better than the current member who has been on the drum stool for 36 years.
Bruce is an Ian Paice kind of a guy. Clive is an Ian Paice kind of a guy ;)
 

Perun

And the world, unheeding, turns
Staff member
Also, I have never seen anyone back up the claim that Burr was technically on McBrain level either. I mean if someone here says Smith is technically on Malmsteen level I'd expect to see some continuous fast sweep arpeggios, not the talk how his music fits the genre better.
Phew, I'm not entirely sure I can side with you on this one. The difference is that H and Malmsteen were not in the same band, playing the same songs. There is a very legitimate reason and way to compare Clive and Nicko: They were in the same bands, with the same musicians, playing the same songs. This is one of the moments when I think a comparison is fair, if only to see how different drummers can be.
 
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