Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?

Forostar said:
Posted on page 4. The father died after Clive played his last concert. I still don't know what to make of that death. I mean, it must have nothing to do with all this it unless the death date is wrong, unless the man was ill for a long time, unless all rumours and memories are wrong, including Clive's as well.
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I have said it before and would say it again. I got this information right from someone who has had access to a copy of the death certificate. According to the information, it seems that Ronald Ernest Bertram Burr died on Christmas day - 25 Dec 1982 in the East Ham Memorial Hospital Forest Gate, and Clive, his son, was the informant.

There is no way the death date is wrong. ;)
 
So, Clive was doing daily coke. The others didn't like it, I guess Harris primarily, and he was approached multiple times, failed to quit the habit, and laid off. Although Clive's playing wasn't affected, vague statements about partying and Bruce's comments of him playing slower than usual, etc. were given as a method of concealing the cocaine subject and make it sound more like the usual booze. Clive could only deny that he was playing badly, he couldn't deny the 'going out part', and say they're full of bullshit cause Harris wants to play with McBrain, then the full truth would come out immediately. The story about his fathers death comes from a recent interview, a long long time after these events happened, we can attribute it to distorted memory easily.
 
I contacted Keith Wilfort, head of the Iron Maiden Fan Club for many years, in September 2016 to ask questions about this. After a while he answered (in March 2017). Then I asked him some more plus permission to share what he told. I waited a while but got no answer, so now I feel it would not hurt posting my first questions and his answer here.

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Me:
Dear Keith Wilfort, I and some other people are trying to find out when exactly Nicko temporarily replaced Clive Burr after Clive's father died and returned to the UK. At the moment we think it happened somewhere between 5 and 19 September 1982.

If I may ask, what are your recollections? Do you remember when that happened? Unfortunately we do not know recordings from a gig with Nicko during the Beast of the Road tour. Also no photos. Your help is much appreciated. If interested read here and join if you like. Robert Ellis, the photographer, joined today and he conformed Clive was still in the band during the first 3 gigs after Reading. http://forum.maidenfans.com/threads/why-did-steve-harris-fire-clive-burr.32887/ best regards

Keith Wilfort:
Sorry it's taken me a while to reply. But the links you posted were pretty much on the ball. Clive was getting a bit too involved in the rock and roll excesses (much as Paul did). After his dad died and he also split up with his long term girlfriend, he really over indulged. To get Clive back on course would have resulted in a six month lay-off and at that stage in their career it would have been disastrous to shut down for that long, with no guarantee Clive would be back to his best. Therefore Nicko was in the frame. He got on well with the band, had known Rod for years and was an incredible drummer. However, I only remember Nicko siting in for the German TV show and a couple of promo appearances with an Eddie mask. He never actually played a in proper gig on the tour. Nicko was never asked to formally replace Clive until the end of 1982.
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So according to Keith Wilfort, Nicko never played a performance (involving real live drumming) with Maiden, before he officially joined. It makes sense to me, since we (or at least I!) have never heard a recording on which Nicko can be heard. Also no other info pointing out that Nicko had performed, or that Clive was not with the band during a gig. And the death date from Clive's father's death certificate info was already pointing at this, of course, although it did not rule out that Nicko played live with the band. That's why it's good to have the recollections from at least one person very near to the band.
 
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Forostar said:
I contacted Keith Wilfort, head of the Iron Maiden Fan Club for many years, in September 2016 to ask questions about this. After a while he answered (in March 2017). Then I asked him some more plus permission to share what he told. I waited a while but got no answer, so now I feel it would not hurt posting my first questions and his answer here.

= = = = = = =
Me:
Dear Keith Wilfort, I and some other people are trying to find out when exactly Nicko temporarily replaced Clive Burr after Clive's father died and returned to the UK. At the moment we think it happened somewhere between 5 and 19 September 1982.

If I may ask, what are your recollections? Do you remember when that happened? Unfortunately we do not know recordings from a gig with Nicko during the Beast of the Road tour. Also no photos. Your help is much appreciated. If interested read here and join if you like. Robert Ellis, the photographer, joined today and he conformed Clive was still in the band during the first 3 gigs after Reading. http://forum.maidenfans.com/threads/why-did-steve-harris-fire-clive-burr.32887/ best regards

Keith Wilfort:
Sorry it's taken me a while to reply. But the links you posted were pretty much on the ball. Clive was getting a bit too involved in the rock and roll excesses (much as Paul did). After his dad died and he also split up with his long term girlfriend, he really over indulged. To get Clive back on course would have resulted in a six month lay-off and at that stage in their career it would have been disastrous to shut down for that long, with no guarantee Clive would be back to his best. Therefore Nicko was in the frame. He got on well with the band, had known Rod for years and was an incredible drummer. However, I only remember Nicko siting in for the German TV show and a couple of promo appearances with an Eddie mask. He never actually played a in proper gig on the tour. Nicko was never asked to formally replace Clive until the end of 1982.
= = = = = = =

So according to Keith Wilfort, Nicko never played a performance (involving real live drumming) with Maiden, before he officially joined. It makes sense to me, since we (or at least I!) have never heard a recording on which Nicko can be heard. Also no other info pointing out that Nicko had performed, or that Clive was not with the band during a gig. And the death date from Clive's father's death certificate info was already pointing at this, of course, although it did not rule out that Nicko played live with the band. That's why it's good to have the recollections from at least one person very near to the band.
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Thanks for posting this, which kind of confirms the outcome of our research.

In a way it is somewhat sad that Clive felt the need to lie about his exit from the band on that Classic Rock interview, especially considering how the band were keen to help him financially after being diagnosed with MS.
 
Not sure if it was a lie. Who knows his recollections (memory) were wrong. Perhaps he confused temporarily replacement (tv show, promo appearances) with permanent replacement. For him it could have already felt that the band liked Nicko a lot while he was still in the band. Who knows he really thought -or misremembered- that Nicko (also) replaced him at real gigs. We cannot research this I'm afraid.
 
Did he consciously lied ? One is always reluctant to acknowledge his own mistakes. He viewed the whole episode as totally unfair and thought he wasn't given a real chance.
 
harrisdevot said:
Did he consciously lied ? One is always reluctant to acknowledge his own mistakes. He viewed the whole episode as totally unfair and thought he wasn't given a real chance.
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Yes. It is totally reasonable for 2 parties, viewing the same thing, but from different viewpoints, to have a different view after all.

Like taking a photo from the front and then from the side - same thing, but looks totally different (as a rubbish analogy!)
 
Forostar said:
Not sure if it was a lie. Who knows his recollections (memory) were wrong. Perhaps he confused temporarily replacement (tv show, promo appearances) with permanent replacement. For him it could have already felt that the band liked Nicko a lot while he was still in the band. Who knows he really thought -or misremembered- that Nicko (also) replaced him at real gigs. We cannot research this I'm afraid.
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He claimed having to fly back to the UK to attend his dad's funeral and then flying back to the States to rejoin the band, noticing a change in the air.

If that is not lying, the his memories were heavily distorted by his drug anuse.
 
GhostofCain said:
He claimed having to fly back to the UK to attend his dad's funeral and then flying back to the States to rejoin the band, noticing a change in the air.

If that is not lying, the his memories were heavily distorted by his drug anuse.
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Or distorted by time. I am sure my memories from 20 or 30 years ago are not as accurate as they might be, for no other reason than a lot of time has since passed ;)
 
Welsh Phantom said:
Or distorted by time. I am sure my memories from 20 or 30 years ago are not as accurate as they might be, for no other reason than a lot of time has since passed ;)
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I think I would remember when my father died in relation to being fired from a dream job, but it seems Clive did not. ;)
 
Well, so the official story (RTTH biography) stands. It was a bit vague so they don't discredit Clive. Like I initially presumed.
 
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