War starts as world parties

Perun said:
Look at it this way: Russia is blowing a regional conflict way out of proportion by bombing Georgian cities and harming innocent civilians. A report I read yesterday said the entire port of Poti was destroyed by a Russian air attack, and this is set to throw Georgia's economic development back by decades. As I said earlier, Georgia is fucked because Russia doesn't like it.
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Ok, I don't know enough about this conflict to point any fingers. I read this thread and got a basic idea. And I quoted what Perun said here because essentially that's what I see. Regardless of who started this, who is on what side, where Ossetia is, which member of this forum is squabbling with another member (please guys, can we stop the personal attacks?), for me it boils down to this: Russia did not have to attack towns in Georgia proper, it smacks of asking for more trouble and I think this is what has led to everybody (NATO, the West, whatever you want to call it) judging Russia to be the villain out for conquering Georgia. LC's above piece of news certainly won't help that view. Still, I don't judge Russia per se (although I do think Putin fancies himself a bit too much a modern day Stalin), what I condemn is the killing of innocent people, men, women, and children. While this forum may be adult enough to discuss things in a civilized manner, it is unfortunate to see that other parts of the world can't solve conflicts without pulling out machine guns and massacring the fuck out of each other.
 
Other news: Russia is pissed off that the USA has used their airlift capacity to return the Georgian contingent from Iraq to join the fighting in North Georgia.  While this might look like the right thing to do, it'll seriously hamper any efforts for the USA to broker a peace.
 
Here's a nice neutral article on the subject :

http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-a ... jacta-est/

Looks like Russians are bringing big guns in : main Georgian radar control station on the Mahat was destroyed by X-101 missile launched from Tu-160 White Swan. Makes logic : Ukraine delivered S-200 to Georgia, which was used to down Russian Tu-22M3R (yes, it was a Backfire, but a recon version). Russians don't want to risk any further expensive hardware and human loss in bombing strikes. X-101 was launched from well inside Russian Federation, it's range being several thousand of kilometers.

The images and reports tell us enough. All we have to do is look at the right chronology and size of the developments.
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Images are faked, reports are biased. On both sides, probably. If you're making your view from western news agencies, then you're in same shit like people who make their view from Russian military journals like redstar.ru.

What i find most interesting is that both Russian and western media aren't concentrated on this war. There's scarce info both on the net, and in papers/TV. Georgia has declared martial law, and Russia is pulling in it's heavy strategic aviation, but they both say they're not engaged in war, with governmental connections still going on. Georgians were getting weaponry from Israel and Ukraine via Black Sea routes, etc, west is pretty much silent, there's plethora of things going on, but everything seems to be shoved under the carpet from all sides.

This is probably more of a geo-strategical issue than we're contemplating.
 
Regardless of who started it, there are now reports that Russia has invaded areas of Georgia proper, specifically Senaki.  The AP reports that the Russians have confirmed they've taken the bases at this town.

Forostar said:
Sometimes the human heart is stronger than the mind.
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Sorry, mate.  Getting involved in any way is a bad idea by the USA at this point, unless they actually want to get involved, at which point I am going to my bomb shelter.
 
I don't know if it's mentioned elsewhere
but the 90% of south Ossetians have Russian passport
...to me this info made a lot of sense

I saw two more photos ! with the same 'Zare' protagonists
and of course each one with a different background
as I stated before this doen't tell us WHAT happened
-just what a kitschy aesthetic exist in today's mass media -and I thought you might be interested

now, what I understood about the facts is

1. Western countries have a lot of oil companies in Georgia
2. Georgia wanted to be in NATO, something not good for Russia's interests
3. (for one reason that I don't get) Georgia hit in the middle of the truce, and hit first
4. Russia was really expecting for this opportunity, was *praying* for a 'golden' opportunity like this 
5. Russia -as LC correctly mentioned- attacked to proper areas of Georgia
6. This may be the opportunity that Westerns were waiting for
 
An excellent summary of the situation, no5.

Though I don't know if it's the opportunity the West is waiting for...the opportunity to do what?  Watch as Georgia is crushed by the Russian military like it's a pea?
 
I certainly prefer them to all other media, by far ; Russian, Chineese, Arab
there is certainly a variety and one certain freedom of speech that others don't have

and as they say, in the kingdom of the blind, one-eyed rules, so I don't trust nobody for 100%, western or not
 
If Russia had stopped at South Ossetia, they might have gotten out ok.  But now?  This still isn't fucking good.  There is no reason to invade Georgia proper.  Period.
 
This still isn't fucking good.
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no it's not, if Russians were a bit smart they wouldn't done this. but no;
they reacted as everyone who has the power : with arrogance

....and now it's getting scary for all
 
Zare said:
What i find most interesting is that both Russian and western media aren't concentrated on this war. There's scarce info both on the net, and in papers/TV.
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Uh... I don't know about Croatia, but in Germany, this has been dominating newspapers and TV news for the last few days. It gets more coverage than the Olympics, and that's saying something.
 
Zare said:
What i find most interesting is that both Russian and western media aren't concentrated on this war. There's scarce info both on the net, and in papers/TV.
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:blink:  It has been front-page news in (at least) the NY Times and the LA Times every day since the crisis erupted.  Where I agree with you is that there has been insufficient (though not zero) coverage of the "back story," i.e., what led to this, both the immediate and more deep-rooted causes. 
 
Baltic States support is quite normal I find......

What can Sarkozy do? Makes me curious.
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Sarkozy ? what can he really do ?
I think there is an overestimation for Sarkozy, especial from the people abroad
in France he doesn't fool us any more
 
Georgia is now saying Russia has occupied Gori and are landing amphibious troops at Poti.  US officials say that this cannot be verified at this time.
 
I just found out about this on Monday morn, mostly from reading here-- tho I skimmed quite a bit.  My bro and I were talking, and I didn't figure that the US would do anything at all, but was suprised to see that Bush had made some sort of statement about the Russians pulling back.  Granted, he did that while playing beach volleyball with the US women's team, but it was a statement, non the less.
 
It is, of course, possible that journalists aren't being targeted by Russia.  That may be a "bad" idea.  But in general, there are certainly propaganda spins from both sides of the story, and Russia seems to be the most ridiculous of the two.

Hopefully the truth comes out and this poor cameraman's sacrifice isn't in vain.
 
I absolutely disapprove of anything that takes NATO to war in Georgia.  We had best not, because I don't want to be shouldering a C-7 anytime soon.  I hope you don't either, Foro.  All aid short of war.
 
Well, if you were PM of Holland, or in charge of NATO, what *would* you like to do?
 
According to svt.se, a swedish news channel, a ceasefire between Georgia and Russia has been agreed upon. I am very interested to learn if this is true, and whether it will last the weekend. And about NATO and the US, I'd like to point out that the second either of those two show solidarity to Georgia in form of warfare, I'm outta here. Because we all know what that means...China will side with Russia, the world will split itself into East vs. West, and Europe had better come up with a good plan because it's doomed as far as I can see.
 
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