USA Politics

Vaenyr said:
Just to make sure I'm not misunderstanding your question:
Wish = better informed voters
Process = descent into fascism
correct?
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Yes, exactly correct.

Unfortunately no, I don't think we are able to change things in time. We are in the middle of this. People are refusing to learn from past mistakes and are seemingly desperate to get parties like the AFD in Germany in power, despite them not having any experience governing, not having any realistic policies, and also making blatantly unconstitutional promises.

Add to that the fact that somehow the left gets blamed for the problems of the right.
Germany had 16 years of conservative rule, 4 of center-left - which was actively sabotaged by one of the coalition partners, who are right wing - and now conservative rule. The center-left coalition was blamed for issues directly caused by the previous 16-year conservative rule. Similar thing with the Dems and the GOP in America. The latter routinely tanks the economy, the former manages to correct things, but the voters return to the GOP again under the objectively wrong premise that they are better for the economy, when the data very clearly shows that to be wrong.

It would take decades of effort, work and clever politics to make things better, but I'm afraid that's utopic. Hell, take climate change for example. It is blatantly obvious and clearly supported by facts that humans are impacting it and are making everything worse, yet you have a big chunk of the population who puts their feelings over any facts, chooses to believe populists instead of experts and scientists, just because "their team" chose to make this a culture war issue. On top of that you have mainstream media which are either dominated by right wing influence or are far too lenient to the right while being actively hostile to the left, and I'm left wondering if there's anything we can do to change any of that.

But I can guarantee you: moving to the right, abandoning minorities and throwing them under the bus, and voting for fascists will only make things worse, not better.
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Though you lean a good way further to the left than I do, I share similarly pessimistic sentiments about the direction of travel, but it seems a shame to simply be resigned to society having to 'learn the hard way' again. Not that I have a ready-made solution up my sleeve unfortunately!
 
UpTheIrons said:
Though you lean a good way further to the left than I do, I share similarly pessimistic sentiments about the direction of travel, but it seems a shame to simply be resigned to society having to 'learn the hard way' again. Not that I have a ready-made solution up my sleeve unfortunately!
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Being hopeful can result in getting hurt.
When Biden won in 2020 I was hopeful that some of Trump's actions could be undone (reading the posts from back then in this thread is bleak nowadays). I hoped that Harris, despite not being a great candidate, would win and that over the years some things I personally care about (for example climate, lgbtq rights) would be better than they've been in the past. I was in for a rude awakening when Trump ended up winning again.

Not everything is doom and gloom, but to me it feels like we're standing at the edge of a cliff, some tugging at us to get use to safety, others trying to drag us into the abyss. Hopefully we'll be able to turn things around, and I reeeeally hope we'll do it in time. We are already repeating some of the mistakes of the previous century, no need to go "all the way".
 
Given the data that we were given over the last ten years and the experience of a first Trump term, I do think you have to be stupid to have voted for him last year. I understand the implication there is that a plurality (if not outright majority) of Americans are stupid, but that is a serious societal problem right now that I believe is largely brought on by brain rot and people’s social media diets.

I’m not sure how to fix it, although I don’t advocate for anybody losing the right to vote.
 
Mosh said:
I’m not sure how to fix it, although I don’t advocate for anybody losing the right to vote.
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No, that's a growing MAGA position. The Man should cast the vote for his Family. The point of that is to take away women's right to vote. What a disgusting party.
 
Vaenyr said:
I never said only the other side has morons. "My side" has plenty of them. In fact, the average voter, regardless of political affiliation, is largely uninformed and ignorant. No need to assume my positions or put words in my mouth; I'm more than happy to elaborate on my positions ;)

And no, I'm against IQ testing. I wish we had better educational systems that teach people critical thinking skills, how to navigate a post-truth society dominated by social media and ragebait, to determine the quality of a source.


From what I've seen "left biased media" couldn't be further from the truth, but that's not really the main point of the thread, so I won't dwell on that.

I don't know or really care if name calling is immature or childish. A huge chunk of the problems we are facing globally nowadays were directly caused by various right-wing administrations, I have no interest in taking the high road. If I see a fool, I will call them as such.

As an example: The US is still dealing with the consequences of Reagan to this day. Trump's actions from 2016 onwards are felt today and what is happening right now will be felt for decades to come, globally.

Also, the majority of UK media is leaning right, not left. That's not really up for debate, that's just a fact. Even the BBC that you mention has shifted further right over the years. We could argue that they are centrist in a way, but calling the BBC an example of left leaning media is laughable.

I'll reiterate my main point though:

Fascists don't solve problems, they only make things worse. We can see the outcome of far right populist agendas in the US, where things are objectively getting worse and worse. Anyone who thinks Reform is somehow going to be the sole example of far right populism that won't fall into the same old issues and patterns... Well, I've got a bridge and various other pieces of infrastructure to sell them.

And because I don't want it to be brushed aside, it bears repeating:

You might vote for Reform for one particular issue but with your vote endorse every other position of theirs as well. It's time to be honest and let people take responsibility for their choices. We are talking about adults here, right? It's convenient how conservatives and moderates always try to shift the blame unto progressives instead of admiting that whole-ass adults made dumbass choices and have fucked up. Like the earlier mention of the the left somehow being responsible for not keeping the votes of morons who fall for populist lies and propaganda.

Also, also: Once more this thread is drifting off course and ignoring the fact that the world's most powerful man was part of a literal pedophile ring and a convicted sexual abuser, because a centrist felt the need to quote state sponsored propaganda in an effort to attack the left once again, which cause this whole derailement. Wonderful.
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You are clearly far more Politically Knowledgeable than me which i imagine my simplistic view irritates you slightly. As i said i try to stay away from the political world and will continue to do that where possible as it isn`t the most enjoyable of subjects.
I have on this occasion as is my right, aired my views which may or may not align with yours, they are as i have been clear on relating to the UK and not the USA . On that basis i would like to make sure there is no doubt that a right wing tendency in my home land does not mean i am supportive of Trump or his past so please feel free to get back to the point of the thread.
 
Fozzie said:
You are clearly far more Politically Knowledgeable than me which i imagine my simplistic view irritates you slightly. As i said i try to stay away from the political world and will continue to do that where possible as it isn`t the most enjoyable of subjects.
I have on this occasion as is my right, aired my views which may or may not align with yours, they are as i have been clear on relating to the UK and not the USA . On that basis i would like to make sure there is no doubt that a right wing tendency in my home land does not mean i am supportive of Trump or his past so please feel free to get back to the point of the thread.
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No idea about "more knowledgeable", but it is a topic I'm passionate about, which can result in heated posts. I'm sorry if I came across as too hostile. Know that I don't have anything against you personally and I'm also not claiming you're in support of Trump or anything like that. I'm just pointing to him as an example of how things are currently getting worse (in my opinion) and how I believe that the rest of the world would be better served to not follow in his footsteps.
 
Vaenyr said:
No idea about "more knowledgeable", but it is a topic I'm passionate about, which can result in heated posts. I'm sorry if I came across as too hostile. Know that I don't have anything against you personally and I'm also not claiming you're in support of Trump or anything like that. I'm just pointing to him as an example of how things are currently getting worse (in my opinion) and how I believe that the rest of the world would be better served to not follow in his footsteps.
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i can see you are passionate. I am not passionate about politics but am passionate about issues around me in my Country and what i see as a decline ,this obviously crosses over in to Politics, it`s inevitable.
I certainly don`t think Farage is great or anything like that but i am massively disappointed with Starmer . Anyway enough of that, this can get back on topic and see you in the various Maiden threads.
 
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Charlie Kirk has been killed in a targeted school shooting. It is shocking, to say the least.

At times like these it is important to remember certain beliefs:

"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational." - Charlie Kirk

"I think empathy is a made up New Age term that does a lot of damage." - Charlie Kirk
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Charlie Kirk has been killed in a targeted school shooting. It is shocking, to say the least.

At times like these it is important to remember certain beliefs:

"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational." - Charlie Kirk

"I think empathy is a made up New Age term that does a lot of damage." - Charlie Kirk
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Extremely ghoulish behaviour to make a thinly veiled gloating statement before someone's body is even cold, imo.

I don't know too much about this guy as I'm not American but from what I understand his premise was that he sat down and debated people.

I'm sure I would have disagreed with him on many points, but that doesn't justify violence much less a young man being assassisnated in front of his wife and children.

I've seen many on various platforms, twitter and other forums etc. actually openly celebrating this, they should be mindful that if such flagrant political violence becomes normalised or acceptable that you can't easily put that genie back in the bottle.
 
Ever wonder how the left can go around calling conservatives “fascists” when their fellow leftists are the ones shooting people?

Anyone who celebrates Charlie Kirk’s death is absolutely subhuman. The beauty of America is that we, as adults, can disagree and still be civil with each other. Kirk did not spread hate or violence, but merely debated people and tried to open their eyes to common sense. And no, I do not agree with everything he said - but I do agree with much of it.

It would not surprise me if this was a professional political assassination. The leftist media will surely try to blame it on a “lone psycho,” but whoever did this shot him from a rooftop 200 yards away and then vanished into thin air. I’m actually less interested in who pulled the trigger than I am in who paid him to do so.

Whether you agreed with Kirk or not, this is a sad day for the USA.
 
First of all: I'm not celebrating his death.

Secondly, some context:

He was actively advocating for the violent eradication of trans individuals.
He was instrumental in securing Trump's win in 2024 and was thanked multiple times by Trump himself.
He was working with various high profile Republicans.
And he was a neo nazi.

I'm not celebrating his death but I definitely won't mourn it either. He was a piece of shit and was doing everything in his power to make the world a worse place.

Aaaaalso: The only reason America exists is because of political violence. Every revolution in history was a result of political unrest and violence. I wasn't joking when I said America is descending into fascism; things are going to get so much worse. We had a right wing nutjob a couple of months ago who executed two Democrat politicians and by now that's completely forgotten. And let's not forget that Charlie Kirk himself actively worked to normalize political violence.

So, yeah, my sympathies are limited.
 
Detective Beauregard said:
Ever wonder how the left can go around calling conservatives “fascists” when their fellow leftists are the ones shooting people?
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I'm gonna stop you right there. We don't know who shot him. You have no idead if a "leftist" shot him.
Trump was shot by conservatives, not leftists.

Detective Beauregard said:
Kirk did not spread hate or violence, but merely debated people and tried to open their eyes to common sense.
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Objectively wrong. He spread hate and incited violence non-stop. Educate yourself before posting.

Detective Beauregard said:
It would not surprise me if this was a professional political assassination.
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Cute conspiracy. So instead of going for Trump (who was shot by former supporters of his) you think "leftists", who can't even unite behind Mamdani, would hire an assassin for Kirk? LMAO

Detective Beauregard said:
Whether you agreed with Kirk or not, this is a sad day for the USA.
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Yeah, it's a sad day because of the Minneapolis school shooting where kids were killed, that's true.
Edit: I meant today's Colorado shooting, not the Minneapolis one.
 
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Also, very important to point out:

The vast majority of left wing public figures immediately condemned political violence of any form.

Fox News instantly went "we need to kill and fight the left".

So, who needs to tone done the violent rhetoric, hm?
 
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