USA Politics

[Vaenyr]

Good lord, this is why I can barely stomach looking at this thread, yet alone posting here. It’s like the Death Star of echo chambers.

Because we stopped you from spreading misinformation?

You make it sound as if I’m talking about the unemployed overweight rainbow protestor crowd opening up a “Take Out Charlie Kirk” GoFundMe. I’m referring to the wealthiest of the wealthy who really pull the strings of the Democratic Party.

Yes and why would tHeY order an hit on Charlie Kirk instead of Trump? Or other GOP figures? You know very well that this makes absolutely no sense. How about we wait until we find out more about the shooter instead of this nonsense?

Of course, that was horrible. But we all know the backstory of that shooter.

Ah, I fucked up. I wasn't talking about the recent Minneapolis shooting, I meant the Colorado shooting from today.

 

[Trevoire]

Wow.

I honestly think it's very likely that there's political motivations behind this. But to instantly go to it being a paid assassination with ZERO evidence is wild!


No doubt the next few days and weeks will be a constant drum of "The left needs to tone down their rhetoric, someone's been killed"

Which in effect means "let the right continue to do whatever we want, don't you dare criticise us or accurately tell the public what we do and say"

The right on other hand will quickly start talking about civil war. I guarantee it.


Political violence shouldn't be the answer to anything. But the USA has unfortunately been heading this way for a while.
People being arrested outside Kamalas house with guns and ammo, the attack on Pelosis husband, Trumps assassination attempts, the shooting and assassination of Minnesota legislators. That's just what I can remember off the top of my head, there's a long list.

When you have a population that has rampant mental health problems, easy access to firearms, and hostile politics then this kind of event becomes increasingly likely.


The comment with Charlie's view on the second amendment is interesting in the context of his death. He was clearly willing for people to die in order for people to have access to guns, but I doubt he ever considered it could be him at the receiving end of that equation.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

Because we stopped you from spreading misinformation?

You accuse me of this and I accuse you of this. We’re going around in circles and it isn’t going to change.

How about we wait until we find out more about the shooter?

I can agree with this.

Ah, I fucked up. I wasn't talking about the recent Minneapolis shooting, I meant the Colorado shooting from today.

There isn’t much info about this that I can find. Three critically injured (including the assailant), one with minor injuries. Hopefully they’ll survive and the authorities can figure out why the shooter did it.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

I honestly think it's very likely that there's political motivations behind this. But to instantly go to it being a paid assassination with ZERO evidence is wild!

To be fair, I said “it wouldn’t surprise me,” not “it was DEFINITELY a paid hit and Soros and the Illuminati and lizard people are behind it!”

 

[Flaming Blimp Crash]

Professional political assassination? Good lord. You'd be looking at mysterious illnesses or a Russia-esque trip through a window. But a shooting in broad daylight?

 

[el diablo]

Charlie Kirk has been killed in a targeted school shooting. It is shocking, to say the least.

At times like these it is important to remember certain beliefs:

"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational." - Charlie Kirk

"I think empathy is a made up New Age term that does a lot of damage." - Charlie Kirk

Seek immediate psychiatric help.

 

[Jer]

We’ve had gun-toting psychos from both ends of the political spectrum perpetrating these shootings in recent times. Neither outcome would surprise me at this point.

It’s still not as bad as the 1960s yet, and the country survived that period, so we’ll eventually come out of this OK. But it seems like every 50-60 years or so there’s a violent upheaval in this country, and I guess we were sadly due for another one.

 

[Vaenyr]

You accuse me of this and I accuse you of this. We’re going around in circles and it isn’t going to change.

I didn't accuse you of anything, I fact checked you. Which I've done plenty of times (remember how you ranted about Pride month and didn't know there are multiple celebrations for Veterans? Good times ).

You came in hot trying to blame leftists, when data and evidence show that conservatives are the ones mostly responsible for political violence.

To be fair, I said “it wouldn’t surprise me,” not “it was DEFINITELY a paid hit and Soros and the Illuminati and lizard people are behind it!”

Yes and there is less than zero evidence for such an idea. The shooting was definitely politically motivated, but I can guarantee you that it's not Dem establishment behind that. The Dems have a losing fetish, where they can't even pull themselves together to support popular candidates like AOC or Mamdani and you think they'd manage to order a successful hit on a political commentator of all people? That makes no sense.

Seek immediate psychiatric help.

Why? As Mosh said:

"I feel like using somebody’s own words to eulogize them is a fairly normal thing to do."

 

[el diablo]

How is that a gloating statement? He was killed by policies he pushed.

Bullshit. I don’t know much about him other than reading a few articles he wrote , but nothing in there remotely said that murder is a policy he pushed.
What a stupid fucking comment.

 

[el diablo]

We don’t know anything about the perpetrator at this point.

So you think it was a fan of his?
Brilliant.

 

[Vaenyr]

Bullshit. I don’t know much about him other than reading a few articles he wrote , but nothing in there remotely said that murder is a policy he pushed.
What a stupid fucking comment.

The policies in question are his vehement anti-gun control views and his quote about the second amendment requiring a few gun deaths every year.

 

[Mosh]

 

[el diablo]

The policies in question are his vehement anti-gun control views and his quote about the second amendment requiring a few gun deaths every year.

So you’re equating legal citizens gun ownership with murder?

 

[Vaenyr]

So you think it was a fan of his?
Brilliant.

Trump's attempted assassins were both former Trump fans.
Kirk had a fued with Nick Fuentes, a neo nazi, so the shooter could be even further right than Charlie.
It could be a centrist.
We have absolutely no information on the suspect yet.

So you’re equating legal citizens gun ownership with murder?

Is that what I said? No, nor did anyone else in the thread. Take a moment to catch your breath and actually read what people are writing.

America clearly has a gun problem. Utah makes it incredibly easy for people who shouldn't have access to guns, to purchase them. Charlie was vehemently against gun control. It is ironic that he died in a shooting, especially after that "gun deaths are necessary" quote.

 

[el diablo]

Trump's attempted assassins were both former Trump fans.
Kirk had a fued with Nick Fuentes, a neo nazi, so the shooter could be even further right than Charlie.
It could be a centrist.
We have absolutely no information on the suspect yet.


Is that what I said? No, nor did anyone else in the thread. Take a moment to catch your breath and actually read what people are writing.

America clearly has a gun problem. Utah makes it incredibly easy for people who shouldn't have access to guns, to purchase them. Charlie was vehemently against gun control. It is ironic that he died in a shooting, especially after that "gun deaths are necessary" quote.

What I read was some comments saying he essentially had it coming for advocating legal gun ownership

I’ve no doubt that if someone murdered a prominent left-wing figure there would be months of outrage here. And to be clear, I’d agree unconditionally.

Political violence is always wrong regardless of the source.

 

[The Garlon]

With all the negative and hateful things he's said about women and minorities I'm not sure how anyone is surprised. He died for his shitty beliefs and now he'll be treated as martyr. But no one likes political violence. This is a bad path we've taken as a nation.

 

[Vaenyr]

What I read was some comments saying he essentially had it coming for advocating legal gun ownership

That's not what anyone wrote in this thread at least.

I’ve no doubt that if someone murdered a prominent left-wing figure there would be months of outrage here. And to be clear, I’d agree unconditionally.

You mean when a Democrat was assassinated and another shot at a couple of months ago?

2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Political violence is always wrong regardless of the source.

Eeeeeh, not really, that's too simplistic. If someone shot and killed Hitler would that have been wrong? Was it wrong of Washington, Jefferson and the other founding fathers to revolt against the British and found the US? They were soldiers who fought and killed. They started a war to gain their independence.

Same with any other revolution in history. Change has never come about through flowers and chocolates. Note, I'm not saying that Charlie deserved to die. But I also think people have forgotten how bloody history really was and how we've gotten to where we are today.

 

[el diablo]

That's not what anyone wrote in this thread at least.


You mean when a Democrat was assassinated and another shot at a couple of months ago?

2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Eeeeeh, not really, that's too simplistic. If someone shot and killed Hitler would that have been wrong? Was it wrong of Washington, Jefferson and the other founding fathers to revolt against the British and found the US? They were soldiers who fought and killed. They started a war to gain their independence.

Same with any other revolution in history. Change has never come about through flowers and chocolates. Note, I'm not saying that Charlie deserved to die. But I also think people have forgotten how bloody history really was and how we've gotten to where we are today.

So get to the point and unequivocally condemn the murder instead of defending statements that he kinda / sorta deserved it.
You said “I’m not saying that Charlie deserved to die.”
But that’s very weak sauce. Denounce murder without mealy-mouthed qualifications.

 

[Vaenyr]

So get to the point and unequivocally condemn the murder instead of defending statements that he kinda / sorta deserved it.
You said “I’m not saying that Charlie deserved to die.”
But that’s very weak sauce. Denounce murder without mealy-mouthed qualifications.

Nah, I don't like removing nuance and context from my posts. I can repeat what I've already said:

- Charlie Kirk was a piece of shit who spent his life trying to make the world a worse place. He actively spread hate, and was inciting violence with the goals of violently eradicating certaib minorites like the trans community.
- I will not miss him and I have no sympathies whatsoever.
- Despite that, I do not celebrate his death.
- I also think "political violence is never okay" is naive and wrong. There are instances where political violence was necessary and resulted in net positives for humanity.

If this isn't enough for you and you still can't see what my positions are, regardless of if you agree or not, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

 

[el diablo]

Then you’re the problem.
And when the other side uses ‘nuance’ to excuse political violence, remember your words.
I’ll continue to advocate freedom of speech and denounce political violence.