USA Politics
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Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
We have decades of data that shows "the other side" (conservatives) being by far the main source of domestic terrorism in the US. Right wing extremism isn't anything new; they don't need "justifications" like a random leftist on an Iron Maiden enthusiast forum saying "Kirk shouldn't have been assassinated, but the world is probably a better place without him and his harmful ideology".
But sure, if it helps, count me in as "part of the problem" I guess lol
Also explaining ≠ excusing. Read what people actually write, not what you are imagining them writing.
But sure, if it helps, count me in as "part of the problem" I guess lol
Also explaining ≠ excusing. Read what people actually write, not what you are imagining them writing.
You’re not inciting violence, you’re just justifying it.
And burying your head in the sand to ignore the violence created by left wing policies that unleash repeat violent criminals on the innocent public again and again.
How about we all just obey the laws and don’t hurt anyone else?
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
How about you don’t go putting words into my mouth that I neither said nor agree with.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Now you're just making bullshit up. It's funny how somehow everything is the left's fault.
Tell that to the conservatives:
- Who are overwhelmingly responsible for extremist violence.
- Who are overrepresented in child sexual abuse cases.
- Who voted for a convicted felon and pedophile.
Once again: Take a deep breath. You are overemptional and fighting with strawmen. You are not engaging with what people are actually saying or writing. You're putting words into our mouths, for what, to feel superior? Chill out, take a moment, cool down and then you can try again, alright?
These are your words:
How is that a gloating statement? He was killed by policies he pushed.
I didn’t put them in your mouth.
You indicated that his policies - gun ownership- was what killed him.
No, a murderer killed him .
And it’s true that at this point nobody knows what insane viewpoint inspired this particular murderer, your quote still says it was his opinions “that killed him.”
You’re a psychopath.
Your initial response to someone being murdered was ‘Welp’. I don’t need to make anything up.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
A murderer with a gun. We need better regulations (please note: I am not saying we should ban all guns, just restrict them more than they currently are) but people like Kirk have lobbied against them for years. Kirk said that gun deaths were an acceptable trade, and now he's a victim of what he himself said.
Thanks for the diagnosis?? I guess???
I'm so thrown aback by this comment, so I guess I'll actually explain how I'm feeling right now. Shock. Hate the guy and his political takes. I think he was helping to further the divide that is occurring in the US, which is leading to political violence. He helped dehumanize people with his stances. How many videos are we gonna see from people like Kirk, Shapiro, Crowder, in which it's all about "yadda yadda DESTROYS woke libtard feminist"?
In 2004 Jon Stewart went on CNN's Crossfire and said the same thing. This shit isn't debate, it's just making issues with nuance become black and white. It's feeding into our tribal instincts. We all want to pick a side and gloat about how much better we are. I know I'm guilty of this. I also hate when people I agree with take this mindset, even though I recognize why things are spun this way - this shit sells.
All of that aside, I saw the notification on my phone. I was surprised. When I learned he actually died, all I felt was shock. I'm not the most fearless person. Living in this country has given me a fear of being shot. All I could think about while reading about what happened and seeing the clips is: what would it have felt like in that situation? Feeling the pain, feeling your body crumple?
Violence has become a part of our every day life in America and it numbs you. I am not sad per se about the person killed but I am sad that this is the way things are. A person can say "some gun deaths are a good trade for having guns". The same guy has also said that he hates empathy. I'm sorry, I have too much empathy for this. My heart bleeds with every new report about a person being killed, it bleeds when the only political action is a tweet for thoughts and prayers, and it bleeds when bad faith actors try to spin this violence into their own political issues instead of addressing the root problems.
Well, I thought I had empathy anyway. But your diagnosis is making me reconsider this. What does a psychopath respond to this? Go fuck yourself?
Yax
Ancient Mariner
I think what has happened is truly awful. It is despicable. He did not deserve to get murdered while participating in discourse, and you don't solve problems by violence and Leftist public figures are condemning, and should continue to do so, this horrific act.
That being said, all this talk about the violent left. Some on the Right are now calling for reciprocal killings! Matt Walsh called for the prosecution and execution (!) of a Democratic mayor the other day. Fairly recently a Democratic politician was shot to death in her bed, and Trump put out a small statement and then proceeded to go to the attack. When Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked in his home by this MAGA fanatic that wanted to murder Pelosi, Trump and the Right ridiculed them both. The assassination attempt where Trump got hit by shrapnel or a bullet, was carried out by a former supporter, not a "leftist". Let's not pretend that the Right don't outright rejoice over violence towards the Left and that the rightwingers on here are all but silent on crimes committed by this administration, on violence towards Leftist public figures, yet are eager to claim moral superiority. Yep, I do realize there is some whatsaboutism going on here, but as a separate issue, I find the hypocrisy appaling.
Trump thought it was unnecessary to call the Governor in the state where the Dem Politician was murdered. Vance however called him. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tru...ta-shootings-calls-grossly/story?id=122870353
That being said, all this talk about the violent left. Some on the Right are now calling for reciprocal killings! Matt Walsh called for the prosecution and execution (!) of a Democratic mayor the other day. Fairly recently a Democratic politician was shot to death in her bed, and Trump put out a small statement and then proceeded to go to the attack. When Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked in his home by this MAGA fanatic that wanted to murder Pelosi, Trump and the Right ridiculed them both. The assassination attempt where Trump got hit by shrapnel or a bullet, was carried out by a former supporter, not a "leftist". Let's not pretend that the Right don't outright rejoice over violence towards the Left and that the rightwingers on here are all but silent on crimes committed by this administration, on violence towards Leftist public figures, yet are eager to claim moral superiority. Yep, I do realize there is some whatsaboutism going on here, but as a separate issue, I find the hypocrisy appaling.
Trump thought it was unnecessary to call the Governor in the state where the Dem Politician was murdered. Vance however called him. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tru...ta-shootings-calls-grossly/story?id=122870353
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Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
To be fair, that was my initial post here. By that point I had written dozens of posts about that matter on Reddit and private chats as well.
And yeah, of course my response for an evil human being dying was "welp". He was genuinely evil and - I repeat - advocating for the violent eradication of all trans people.
Would you clutch your pearls for people who celebrated when Hitler died? Will you be offended when people will be happy that Putin's finally gone?
Note, that I specifically said multiple times that I'm not even celebrating his death. I simply stated that I have no sympathies that a horrible and evil human being died because of the ideals he stood for (namely that the 2A requires gun deaths every year). He spent his time normalizing school shootings, only to end up being another data point in a school shooting statistic.
With that out of the way: Do you condemn Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton and the boys for their political violence? Or are you just a massive hypocrite that needs to feel superior to others?
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Also about the "violent left" thing:
According to the ADL and FBI data, over 75–95% of ideologically motivated killings in the U.S. over the last decade have been committed by far-right extremists.
The numbers are pretty clear about that. Ben Shapiro would say "facts don't care about your feelings". But I'm sure this will only receive a laughing emoji at best, right @Detective Beauregard? It must be exhausting to be objectively wrong all the time and not being able to fight back due to a lack of facts.
Sources:
www.fbi.gov
www.statista.com
nij.ojp.gov
www.ajc.com
extremismterms.adl.org
extremismterms.adl.org
www.independent.co.uk
According to the ADL and FBI data, over 75–95% of ideologically motivated killings in the U.S. over the last decade have been committed by far-right extremists.
The numbers are pretty clear about that. Ben Shapiro would say "facts don't care about your feelings". But I'm sure this will only receive a laughing emoji at best, right @Detective Beauregard? It must be exhausting to be objectively wrong all the time and not being able to fight back due to a lack of facts.
Sources:
FBI Releases 2024 Active Shooter Incidents in the United States Report | Federal Bureau of Investigation
Today, the FBI releases the 2024 Active Shooter Incidents in the United States report to provide an overview of active shooter incidents and responses to help law enforcement, other first responders, and the public better understand the levels of threats associated with active shooter incidents.
www.fbi.gov
Share of domestic extremist-related killings by perpetrator affiliation U.S. 2023| Statista
Between 2014 and 2023, ** percent of all domestic extremist-related killings in the United States were carried out by right-wing extremists.
www.statista.com
What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism
Militant, nationalistic, white supremacist violent extremism has increased in the United States. In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism.
nij.ojp.gov
Opinion: The rising worry over far-right terrorism
A man stands accused of targeting Atlanta for a mass shooting to spark a race war. We should worry.
Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2020
Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2019
Right-wing terrorists killed three times more people in US than Islamists in past decade
Increase should 'serve as a wake-up call to everyone about the deadly consequences of hateful rhetoric' says Anti-Defamation League
www.independent.co.uk
UpTheIrons
Ancient Mariner
'I'm not celebrating his death, I'm just going to repeatedly post how deplorable and evil he was in the hours immediately following his death.'
Strange behaviour tbh.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
He truly was though. Should still not have been murdered.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Posting facts isn't celebrating.
I specifically said he didn't deserve to die.
I don't feel bad about someone evil dying, even if the action that took his life was shocking and wrong.
I think some of y'all really need to bust out some dictionaries.
UpTheIrons
Ancient Mariner
I didn't say you *were* celebrating, I was commenting that repeatedly posting on an internet forum about how evil someone is immediately following their death is kind of weird and obsessive behaviour.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Look at the political climate we are in, that nowadays has a major focus on stripping people of rights, demonize pretty much anybody non-MAGA and using Government to round people up etcetera. Kirk was an advocate of that and a defacto-player. His horrific murder does not undo what is happening in the US in particular and in the West in general and the complicity of people like him who actively call for eradicating other people. Two different thoughts (his murder was wrong and him being an absolute piece of shit that wanted to exterminate poeple) must be allowed co-exist and be debated. His murder does not wash him clean and does not mean everybody else should roll over while violent fascism takes over.
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Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Huh? It's a major event in a topic I care about and I'm just one of several people in here. Why isn't it weird for el diablo diagnosing everyone as twisted psychopaths and putting things in their mouth? Why isn't it weird for Detective coming in hot and falsel accusing leftists of being violent? Me pushing back against such behavior is "weird and obsessive"?
Feels kinda biased, not gonna lie. You could say that's a pretty weird assessment of the situation. Trying to shame me for accurately describing factual information is weird.
Main stream media (especially those leaning right) are doing their best to paint Charlie as this innocent figure. A young father who was interested in debating different opinions and all that. It's important to note the facts that he was actively spreading hate, advocating violence, mocked those having empathy for shooting victims and was normalizing school shootings.
Him finding an untimely and shocking end doesn't make him a saint. A decade of genuinely evil actions aren't washed away because of the way he died.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Look, I get it. Kirk was a symbol and a spokesman for a movement that I find beyond repulsive. But he meant a great deal for great many people, many of them having disgusting opinions centered on racism, anti-women, anti-poor and repression. If it were Obama who had died or was killed, the internet, and probably including politicians, would have been filled with right-wingers celebrating his death because he stands for everything they do not. And I would have been outraged at that. The difference though, albeit the right-wingers would find that neglible, is that he wasn't about turning the U.S. into a Christian Taliban state and wasn't about trying to make life miserable for 50% of the population like MAGA seems to.