USA Politics

[el diablo]

Trump's attempted assassins were both former Trump fans.
Kirk had a fued with Nick Fuentes, a neo nazi, so the shooter could be even further right than Charlie.
It could be a centrist.
We have absolutely no information on the suspect yet.


Is that what I said? No, nor did anyone else in the thread. Take a moment to catch your breath and actually read what people are writing.

America clearly has a gun problem. Utah makes it incredibly easy for people who shouldn't have access to guns, to purchase them. Charlie was vehemently against gun control. It is ironic that he died in a shooting, especially after that "gun deaths are necessary" quote.

What I read was some comments saying he essentially had it coming for advocating legal gun ownership

I’ve no doubt that if someone murdered a prominent left-wing figure there would be months of outrage here. And to be clear, I’d agree unconditionally.

Political violence is always wrong regardless of the source.

 

[The Garlon]

With all the negative and hateful things he's said about women and minorities I'm not sure how anyone is surprised. He died for his shitty beliefs and now he'll be treated as martyr. But no one likes political violence. This is a bad path we've taken as a nation.

 

[Vaenyr]

What I read was some comments saying he essentially had it coming for advocating legal gun ownership

That's not what anyone wrote in this thread at least.

I’ve no doubt that if someone murdered a prominent left-wing figure there would be months of outrage here. And to be clear, I’d agree unconditionally.

You mean when a Democrat was assassinated and another shot at a couple of months ago?

2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Political violence is always wrong regardless of the source.

Eeeeeh, not really, that's too simplistic. If someone shot and killed Hitler would that have been wrong? Was it wrong of Washington, Jefferson and the other founding fathers to revolt against the British and found the US? They were soldiers who fought and killed. They started a war to gain their independence.

Same with any other revolution in history. Change has never come about through flowers and chocolates. Note, I'm not saying that Charlie deserved to die. But I also think people have forgotten how bloody history really was and how we've gotten to where we are today.

 

[el diablo]

That's not what anyone wrote in this thread at least.


You mean when a Democrat was assassinated and another shot at a couple of months ago?

2025 shootings of Minnesota legislators - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Eeeeeh, not really, that's too simplistic. If someone shot and killed Hitler would that have been wrong? Was it wrong of Washington, Jefferson and the other founding fathers to revolt against the British and found the US? They were soldiers who fought and killed. They started a war to gain their independence.

Same with any other revolution in history. Change has never come about through flowers and chocolates. Note, I'm not saying that Charlie deserved to die. But I also think people have forgotten how bloody history really was and how we've gotten to where we are today.

So get to the point and unequivocally condemn the murder instead of defending statements that he kinda / sorta deserved it.
You said “I’m not saying that Charlie deserved to die.”
But that’s very weak sauce. Denounce murder without mealy-mouthed qualifications.

 

[Vaenyr]

So get to the point and unequivocally condemn the murder instead of defending statements that he kinda / sorta deserved it.
You said “I’m not saying that Charlie deserved to die.”
But that’s very weak sauce. Denounce murder without mealy-mouthed qualifications.

Nah, I don't like removing nuance and context from my posts. I can repeat what I've already said:

- Charlie Kirk was a piece of shit who spent his life trying to make the world a worse place. He actively spread hate, and was inciting violence with the goals of violently eradicating certaib minorites like the trans community.
- I will not miss him and I have no sympathies whatsoever.
- Despite that, I do not celebrate his death.
- I also think "political violence is never okay" is naive and wrong. There are instances where political violence was necessary and resulted in net positives for humanity.

If this isn't enough for you and you still can't see what my positions are, regardless of if you agree or not, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

 

[el diablo]

Then you’re the problem.
And when the other side uses ‘nuance’ to excuse political violence, remember your words.
I’ll continue to advocate freedom of speech and denounce political violence.

 

[Vaenyr]

We have decades of data that shows "the other side" (conservatives) being by far the main source of domestic terrorism in the US. Right wing extremism isn't anything new; they don't need "justifications" like a random leftist on an Iron Maiden enthusiast forum saying "Kirk shouldn't have been assassinated, but the world is probably a better place without him and his harmful ideology".

But sure, if it helps, count me in as "part of the problem" I guess lol

Also explaining ≠ excusing. Read what people actually write, not what you are imagining them writing.

 

[el diablo]

We have decades of data that shows "the other side" (conservatives) being by far the main source of domestic terrorism in the US. Right wing extremism isn't anything new; they don't need "justifications" like a random leftist on an Iron Maiden enthusiast forum saying "Kirk shouldn't have been assassinated, but the world is probably a better place without him and his harmful ideology".

But sure, if it helps, count me in as "part of the problem" I guess lol

You’re not inciting violence, you’re just justifying it.
And burying your head in the sand to ignore the violence created by left wing policies that unleash repeat violent criminals on the innocent public again and again.
How about we all just obey the laws and don’t hurt anyone else?

 

[Diesel 11]

Bullshit. I don’t know much about him other than reading a few articles he wrote , but nothing in there remotely said that murder is a policy he pushed.
What a stupid fucking comment.

So you think it was a fan of his?
Brilliant.

How about you don’t go putting words into my mouth that I neither said nor agree with.

 

[Vaenyr]

You’re not inciting violence, you’re just justifying it.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

And burying your head in the sand to ignore the violence created by left wing policies that unleash repeat violent criminals on the innocent public again and again.

Now you're just making bullshit up. It's funny how somehow everything is the left's fault.

How about we all just obey the laws and don’t hurt anyone else?

Tell that to the conservatives:

- Who are overwhelmingly responsible for extremist violence.
- Who are overrepresented in child sexual abuse cases.
- Who voted for a convicted felon and pedophile.

Once again: Take a deep breath. You are overemptional and fighting with strawmen. You are not engaging with what people are actually saying or writing. You're putting words into our mouths, for what, to feel superior? Chill out, take a moment, cool down and then you can try again, alright?

 

[el diablo]

How about you don’t go putting words into my mouth that I neither said nor agree with.

These are your words:
How is that a gloating statement? He was killed by policies he pushed.
I didn’t put them in your mouth.
You indicated that his policies - gun ownership- was what killed him.
No, a murderer killed him .
And it’s true that at this point nobody knows what insane viewpoint inspired this particular murderer, your quote still says it was his opinions “that killed him.”
You’re a psychopath.

 

[el diablo]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.


Now you're just making bullshit up. It's funny how somehow everything is the left's fault.


Tell that to the conservatives:

- Who are overwhelmingly responsible for extremist violence.
- Who are overrepresented in child sexual abuse cases.
- Who voted for a convicted felon and pedophile.

Once again: Take a deep breath. You are overemptional and fighting with strawmen. You are not engaging with what people are actually saying or writing. You're putting words into our mouths, for what, to feel superior? Chill out, take a moment, cool down and then you can try again, alright?

Your initial response to someone being murdered was ‘Welp’. I don’t need to make anything up.