USA Politics

[____no5]

Can I throw this post back at you once we've seen what happened?

Sure why not? Last time nothing happened though.

 

[____no5]

I supported Democrats all my life. Then Biden came and now I wish they never hold oval office, nor Senate, nor House for at least the next 12 years. Good riddance.

 

[bearfan]

I am in the San Francisco area for a few days. I think here actually sums up part of why Trump won. In the local races (all not declared yet), there is almost a universal shift towards more moderates mostly running on public safety issues. The proposition to repeal the lessening of enforcement of "minor" crimes was passed with a massive yes vote. Polling over and over showed economy and public safety were big drivers in this campaign. Harris saying she could not think of a thing she would change from the Biden Administration and national campaign not really focusing on these issues really hurt them ... badly.

 

[Jer]

The only thing I'd like to add is that the Harris campaign, with the exception of abortion, didn't really focus on social justice issues. She ran a very right wing campaign (in absolute terms) to try and court moderate Republicans, which backfired spectacularly.

If your takeaway from this election was that Harris needed to run a more left-wing campaign to be successful, then you have absolutely no understanding of the current U.S. electorate whatsoever.

 

[bearfan]

If your takeaway from this election was that Harris needed to run a more left-wing campaign to be successful, then you have absolutely no understanding of the current U.S. electorate whatsoever.

I have to agree with this. Clinton had his Sister Soldja (or however you spell it) moment which helped him a great deal ... Harris really needed one of those

Edit for those not alive or very young when that happened

Sister Souljah moment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Vaenyr]

If your takeaway from this election was that Harris needed to run a more left-wing campaign to be successful, then you have absolutely no understanding of the current U.S. electorate whatsoever.

She ran an objectively right-wing campaign and did not focus on left-wing ideals. Again, "most lethal army", border and criminal panic; those aren't left-wing ideas. Close to 15 million people who had voted for Biden in 2020 chose to sit this one out. If you can't understand the simple fact that conservatives won't vote for a Republican-lite party and would rather stay with the GOP and that despite Harris trying hard to appeal to moderate conservatives she lost in a landslide giving Trump control over everything, then I'm afraid you're the one who has no understanding of the current electorate.

 

[Night Prowler]

The only silver lining is that he's 78 and possibly won't even make it through a full term.

That's what I've been telling myself about shitty Serbian politicians and they all seem to live long enough to cause unmeasurable damage and then die happy and satisfied when they are far from public life.

 

[Perun]

Ah, the @Jer - @Vaenyr non-aggression pact has expired.

 

[bearfan]

I would take exit polls with a a bit of a grain of salt, but from NBC .. you have to give people a reason to vote for you. (red is Trump, Blue Harris). Full results here https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls

 

[Jer]

Close to 15 million people who had voted for Biden in 2020 chose to sit this one out.

…and Biden didn’t run a particularly left-leaning campaign in 2020. He was the most moderate mainstream candidate in the Democratic field that year, and he ran an old school, pro-union type of campaign. It barely got him through the primaries, but it was enough to eke out a win in the general because he wasn’t scary to swing voters.

If you can't understand the simple fact that conservatives won't vote for a Republican-lite party and would rather stay with the GOP and that despite Harris trying hard to appeal to moderate conservatives she lost in a landslide giving Trump control over everything, then I'm afraid you're the one who has no understanding of the current electorate.

Nice posturing, but I’ve lived here my whole life and have a far better picture of the actual U.S. electorate than you ever will. The general population is not currently on board with the aggressively pro-trans agenda of the left, nor the notion that Democrats are trying to stay soft on illegal immigration to build up a long-term Latino voting base. The abandonment of MLK-style equality language for equity language is also a losing topic, and one that seems fundamentally un-American to many people. Pushing harder on these areas might have energized a subset of the pro-Hamas crowd in Michigan, but it almost certainly would have lost even more Haley voters, who would have been very much within reach for a credible centrist candidate (something Harris could arguably never have been seen as).

I’m sure it sticks in your craw that the U.S. electorate is dead wrong in your view, but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation. A hardcore progressive candidate would have lost even worse than Harris did.

 

[Spaldy]

A couple of corrections;

The general population is not currently on board with the aggressively pro-trans agenda of the left,

That's actually called a pro-human rights agenda and not specifically pro-trans. There is however, an aggressive anti-trans agenda on the right.

Pushing harder on these areas might have energized a subset of the pro-Hamas crowd in Michigan,

Pro-Palestine does not equate support for Hamas. Please educate yourself on this subject.

 

[Spaldy]

Just to be sure that there is a clear and moral difference between Democrat and MAGA supporters, let's wait until Jan 6th and see if the left attempt to riot and burn down the Capitol.

 

[Vaenyr]

Ah, the @Jer - @Vaenyr non-aggression pact has expired.

He started, I have him on ignore.

 

[Perun]

Just to be sure that there is a clear and moral difference between Democrat and MAGA supporters, let's wait until Jan 6th and see if the left attempt to riot and burn down the Capitol.

Yes, then we'll see what vile creatures Democrats really are, not engaging in a Day of Love. Wouldn't you agree, @____no5?

 

[Jer]

That's actually called a pro-human rights agenda and not specifically pro-trans.

One can be pro-human-rights without agreeing that declaring one’s self to be a particular gender automatically makes you that gender, or that tax dollars should be spent on elective sex change operations. This is just a labeling game that whitewashes over the details.

There is however, an aggressive anti-trans agenda on the right.

Yep.

Pro-Palestine does not equate support for Hamas.

Of course not, but there are plenty of college activists who don’t draw a line there. And with Hamas serving as the elected government of Gaza it’s a blurry line anyway.

Please educate yourself on this subject.

Thanks for the dollop of condescension, it’s totally constructive and much appreciated.

 

[UpTheIrons]

One interesting aside from this result is that the pollsters failed miserably, significantly underestimating Trump's support for the third time in a row and giving the entirely false impression that it was a 50/50 race. They must be laughing all the way to the bank, who is still paying for the services of these hacks?

 

[Vaenyr]

…and Biden didn’t run a particularly left-leaning campaign in 2020. He was the most moderate mainstream candidate in the Democratic field that year, and he ran an old school, pro-union type of campaign. It barely got him through the primaries, but it was enough to eke out a win in the general because he wasn’t scary to swing voters.

Yet Biden's campaign was actively further left than Harris'. Funny that.

Nice posturing

Buddy, you're the one who keeps picking a fight. The fact that you can't write a single comment without constant passive aggressiveness says it all.

but I’ve lived here my whole life and have a far better picture of the actual U.S. electorate than you ever will. The general population is not currently on board with the aggressively pro-trans agenda of the left

Cute, but this is totally irrelevant to what we were talking about. Harris did not run on an "aggressively pro-trans agenda". That's just your personal grievances once again projecting. Stay on topic: Kamala's campaign, which was objectively more right wing than Biden's.

nor the notion that Democrats are trying to stay soft on illegal immigration to build up a long-term Latino voting base.

Not what I advocated for, but go off if it makes you feel better.

The abandonment of MLK-style equality language for equity language is also a losing topic, and one that seems fundamentally un-American to many people.

Again, not part of Harris' campaign. We weren't talking about your grievances. Stay on topic if you feel the need to start an argument.

Pushing harder on these areas might have energized a subset of the pro-Hamas crowd in Michigan, but it almost certainly would have lost even more Haley voters, who would have been very much within reach for a credible centrist candidate (something Harris could arguably never have been seen as).

I’m sure it sticks in your craw that the U.S. electorate is dead wrong in your view, but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation. A hardcore progressive candidate would have lost even worse than Harris did.

These strawmen are getting boring. No one ever said anything about a "hardcore progressive candidate". You are shadowboxing with things no one ever mentioned in the first place. You seem to have this obsessive need to attack people who are further left than you and act like an arrogant asshole who's obviously sooo much better than the delusional leftists. And before you cry about "pRoJeCtIoN", I reflect the tone of the people I converse with. You can see that I was pretty civil with people I fundamentally disagree with on every level in this very thread. Yet you are the one who keeps trying to bait me and looking for fights, so obviously I'll respond differently.

Go on, write another lengthy comment whining and moaning to get it out of your system, I won't read it anyway. I like to engage with actual facts, not your fantasies and your complaints about not being able to being an open bigot against a marginalized community.

 

[Spaldy]

 

[GhostofCain]

A couple of corrections;

That's actually called a pro-human rights agenda and not specifically pro-trans. There is however, an aggressive anti-trans agenda on the right.


Pro-Palestine does not equate support for Hamas. Please educate yourself on this subject.

 

[____no5]

Yes, then we'll see what vile creatures Democrats really are, not engaging in a Day of Love. Wouldn't you agree, @____no5?

I never say Republicans are much better, they are just the lesser evil for the next 12 years. After that Democrats (if they are still a party) may wake up and be a people’s party again.

On a different note, Trump assigning Pompeo as Defense Secretary? That would be an utter BS and disappointment.
Some good takes on this and on why 2024 is not 2016 but way better, in the clip below.