USA Politics

Vance is the correct pick I think. He is young and perfectly fits the current GOP mold. He is also very smart and may help bring over the Elon Musk/Joe Rogan type of “enlightened conservative.” I think he was the guy Trump really wanted the whole time, not sure if he ever seriously considered Rubio or Burgum but I definitely think his polling lead, Biden’s crises, and now the assassination attempt has put Trump in a position where his VP pick doesn’t have to be a huge political calculation.

His past comments on Trump will amount to a few days of negative press coverage at worse, I don’t think it’s going to be a big deal to Trump’s voters (see No 5 already dismissing it).

I remember - many years ago - Vance being elbow-nudged to me by a dear friend as an example of an "intriguing Republican", of someone who might hold a promise in the future, a spark of hope.

That was, of course, before Ukraine and his stance on that. And now this.

I'm really sad, Catholicism should give you a groundwork to set yourself apart from the common stupidities of the modern world, let alone sTrumpetry.
 
Vance's book definitely was a bit of a watershed for conservatives and, at least for a time, it seemed like Vance represented the future of the Republican party. Of course that could still be true, although he clearly represents other values now. I have seen pundit speculation that maybe Vance is just an opportunist and in the event he became president or a presidential candidate he would pivot back to where he was pre-2022. I have a hard time believing it, but he is an interesting guy nonetheless.

Really interesting article from 2016 where he actually considers out loud voting for Hillary Clinton:
 
It's also worth noting that if Trump were elected and died before 2027, Vance could be sworn in as the youngest president in history.
 
I'm really sad, Catholicism should give you a groundwork to set yourself apart from the common stupidities of the modern world, let alone sTrumpetry.

It’s a bit out of topic but don’t you think you restrict yourself too much by specifying it? What’s so special about Catholicism? Why not Christianity? Or Buddhism? Or religious teachings?
 
It’s a bit out of topic but don’t you think you restrict yourself too much by specifying it? What’s so special about Catholicism? Why not Christianity? Or Buddhism? Or religious teachings?

Because Catholicism is faith + philosophy = a rather fixed and well-developed worldview that has been perfected by very often the brightest minds of any given era over 2000 years and gives a very solid and well-reasoned philosophical and argumentational founding regarding many things, morality included.
(Orthodoxy also, to a degree, but the marriage with philosophy hasn't been as profound there and there isn't the unity of the Churches, so that for example the Russian Patriarch who is and has been Putin's bitch (the Russian O.C. has had this problem repeatedly, historically) proclaims the war against Ukraine a holy war and that every Russian soldier that dies there goes immediately to Heaven... well, it shows why I do think it leaves something to be desired).

So, it's not just about some general morals, but a system of morals, which can be deduced, discerned and determined ... and predicted, despite the primacy of the conscience. Nothing as vague as "religious teachings".

For example, "Christian ethics/morals" may mean many things, from taking care of the poor and downtrodden to "abstaining from pre-marital sex" to "my God-given right to open carry" or even "never drink alchohol, coffee and tea" (if you count Mormons as Christians - technically they aren't), but "Catholic morals" have a rather stricter system.

Like, being Catholic you can't be consequentialist/utilitarianist, but you have to be a deontologist. The aim, the means and the circumstances ALL must be good for the deed to be good itself - meaning, there is no "end justifies the means", the means must be in unity with the end, otherwise the deed is morally wrong. This is basic moral theology, basic Catechism, a principle that you can't really argue away.

To name one popular example - yes, a Catholic cannot agree with the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings because doesn't matter how many "lives you saved elsewhere by shortening the war" (which makes it moral in the eyes of many even religious people - as if they count lives like jellybeans and here's the bigger pile) - it is still an undiscriminating and horrific action against the civil populace. The means are monstrous and may never be redeemed by the end result. Which may be unpopular - many actual moral tenets are - but are a result of this system, which - to me personally - is the only system I can really get behind, not just in the moral sphere, but overall.

Like, we have an actual Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, which puts together Catholic social teaching, including what is the moral approach towards inequalities, systemic sin and so on. And like I said, it's not a random list of some authority's sayings, but an entire philosophic system.

It is exactly the "general Christianity" in the US that makes me want to specify, because Christianity has been hijacked by the political Right to mean Young-Earth creationism, obsession with guns, racism and the general "laissez-faire/to each his own/by the bootstaps" asocial sociopathy that has nothing in common with Christianity
- although, as far as anything is concerned, believing Earth to be fake old and actually created 7000 years ago or so is certainly a lesser evil than some others, so I wonder why it's the Y-E creationists who get the most ire - probably because they're the silliest.

To put it simply, yes, I expect more from any believer, usually (although the US type of Christianity in particular shows that I shouldn't always), but I expect Catholicism from a Catholic. Well-founded, well-reasoned search for the Good which isn't swayed by the US milieu or the popular appeal or some primitive, primal, pseudo-pagan ideas of might, vengeance, tribalism or whatever.


It is true that you never stop to be a Catholic, but both the abortion thirstiness of the supposed Catholic Biden (which probably made him excommunicated latae sententiae, but I'm not the authority to say that) and Vance's
"I don't really care what happens to Ukraine one way or the other"/"Ukraine is going to have to cede some territory to the Russians" statements, him getting cozy and comfy with a despicable person like Trump and ... again, from what I heard, support for the abortion to boot shows both are opportunists first and I can't rely on their reasoning and Catholic moral code. Which is something they theoretically proclaim.
Therefore can't trust them in this and therefore can't trust them in general.


Anyway, enough hijacking of this thread, 'nuff said, Judas out.
 
I genuinely think that Vance is the perfect choice from an anti-Trump perspective. Others have already pointed out that he has a lot of baggage and that the various attack ads write themselves. Furthermore, in my eyes the Venn diagram of people who were voting Trump before Vance's appointment and the people who will vote Trump after is a perfect circle, or very close to it. I don't think Vance and how he's become over the last few years is going to appeal to people who wouldn't have voted Trump anyway.
 
I genuinely think that Vance is the perfect choice from an anti-Trump perspective. Others have already pointed out that he has a lot of baggage and that the various attack ads write themselves. Furthermore, in my eyes the Venn diagram of people who were voting Trump before Vance's appointment and the people who will vote Trump after is a perfect circle, or very close to it. I don't think Vance and how he's become over the last few years is going to appeal to people who wouldn't have voted Trump anyway.
I think this misses the bigger picture. Imo the pick is a signal that the campaign thinks they have it in the bag. When VP speculation began earlier this year there was a lot of talk about “identity” picks like Kristi Noem*, Marco Rubio, etc to shore up support among certain demographics. But now that Trump has maintained a polling lead and even is doing better among some of those demographics, he can just pick the VP he actually wants. And in an election like this the VP pick wasn’t really going to make a difference one way or another anyway.

A lot of speculation that he changed his mind at the last minute. I actually think if he had previously picked someone else and changed his mind, that would have happened after the debate. I don’t think the assassination attempt was a factor here.

*Even without the dog incident I’m guessing he wouldn’t have picked Noem in the end.
 
Though supposedly Trump had no idea who he wanted as VP. Don Jr. made the suggestion of Vance apparently. Considering Don Jr's an idiot, it makes total sense. VP choice can make a difference. Trump was trying to smooth/moderate the GOP platform on abortion, but adding a hardline anti-abortion guy in Vance negates that.
 
I think this misses the bigger picture. Imo the pick is a signal that the campaign thinks they have it in the bag. When VP speculation began earlier this year there was a lot of talk about “identity” picks like Kristi Noem*, Marco Rubio, etc to shore up support among certain demographics. But now that Trump has maintained a polling lead and even is doing better among some of those demographics, he can just pick the VP he actually wants. And in an election like this the VP pick wasn’t really going to make a difference one way or another anyway.

A lot of speculation that he changed his mind at the last minute. I actually think if he had previously picked someone else and changed his mind, that would have happened after the debate. I don’t think the assassination attempt was a factor here.

*Even without the dog incident I’m guessing he wouldn’t have picked Noem in the end.
Eh, I don't quite see it that way. I don't think the campaign thinks they have it in the bag. None of the campaigns should think that at this point, considering how turbulent the last few elections were and how untrustworthy polls have become. Being certain that you'll win four months out is a recipe for disaster.

I won't speculate as to what Trump was thinking when choosing Vance, but I genuinely think that this choice will only hurt him in the long run.

Gonna be fascinating to see Kamala debating JD.
 
Even without the dog incident I’m guessing he wouldn’t have picked Noem in the end.
She really did herself no favors putting that story in her book, even if most farmers would have done the same.

Gonna be fascinating to see Kamala debating JD.
I think it’s gonna be brutal. I’m already picturing her laughing awkwardly every time she doesn’t know what to say.
 
I'd honestly never heard of him before this announcement but he looks like a youth pastor who really needs to hide his browsing history.
Yeah same here, I was expecting “J.D. Vance” to be some 50/60 year old millionaire banker honestly.
 
Eh, I don't quite see it that way. I don't think the campaign thinks they have it in the bag. None of the campaigns should think that at this point, considering how turbulent the last few elections were and how untrustworthy polls have become. Being certain that you'll win four months out is a recipe for disaster.

I won't speculate as to what Trump was thinking when choosing Vance, but I genuinely think that this choice will only hurt him in the long run.

Gonna be fascinating to see Kamala debating JD.
I think campaigns make over confident decisions all the time, see Hillary trying to rack up wins in red states in 2016 instead of swing state campaigning. I don’t think Vance gets chosen if Trump (or Trump Jr) is trying to make a decision that will help him in November. But I also really don’t think it will hurt him either, although I will grant that they are taking a risk with a younger guy who hasn’t been in politics very long. It could turn into a Sarah Palin debacle, but so far I’m not seeing it.

Btw I am also not saying personally it’s in the bag for Trump. But there’s no denying that the media and general attitude is acting as if he’s already won. I am not going to put it past Trump and the campaign to drink the kool aid themselves.
 

I am surprised to see that the movement to get Biden to step aside is still happening. I thought it would get swept under the rug with all the assassination attempt news and the RNC buzz.
Biden stands in the way of voter activation and sense of positivity. That's why it's still happening, although it probably won't result in him stepping down. But Biden is acting increasingly strange, bunkering up with family and a couple of advisors to shield him from realities, but the DNC too are rushing to confirm his nomination ahead of time to put an end to it.
 
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Huh, there's a lot of articles in Czech media (and only there, it seems) about Biden admitting the possibility of stepping down, if a doctor says he has any type of diagnosis (??)

Allegedly it was during the BET interview, but I wasn't able to check it.
 
Huh, there's a lot of articles in Czech media (and only there, it seems) about Biden admitting the possibility of stepping down, if a doctor says he has any type of diagnosis (??)

Allegedly it was during the BET interview, but I wasn't able to check it.
Oh, that's quite an inflated take. Biden said something like he'd step down if there's no way he can win (and then right away said "there are no polls saying that!" in a meeting with congressional democrats. I guess he's just disregarding all of them then), and possibly leave it to Harris if she clearly has better polling.

But Biden and his campaign have in practice moved in the other direction.
 
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