Nigel Tufnel
Ancient Mariner
I watch Fox News just for the hot ass anchor babes 
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
Nigel Tufnel
Ancient Mariner
I loves me some Allison Camarota...she is so fooking hot, I don't even care what she has to say ROFLMAO
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Today I saw an interview with Daisy Khan (of the Islamic cultural center) which gave me excellent insight on how America deals with new religions.
1. Look at the shit the Catholics got poured over them
2. An act of Congress was needed to allow the building of a synagogue in Washington
3. Look at the recent increase of hate and violence vs mosques and Muslims
In August, a New York City cabdriver was stabbed in an apparent anti-Muslim bias attack.
It looks like a mosque site in Tennessee was deliberately damaged in a fire.
And now some people want to use 9-11 as Burn-A-Koran-Day.
Some people don't realize how much hate they are seeding among their own folk but also among Muslims. This might endanger US military who serve their country abroad, in e.g. Afghanistan.
1. Look at the shit the Catholics got poured over them
2. An act of Congress was needed to allow the building of a synagogue in Washington
3. Look at the recent increase of hate and violence vs mosques and Muslims
In August, a New York City cabdriver was stabbed in an apparent anti-Muslim bias attack.
It looks like a mosque site in Tennessee was deliberately damaged in a fire.
And now some people want to use 9-11 as Burn-A-Koran-Day.
Some people don't realize how much hate they are seeding among their own folk but also among Muslims. This might endanger US military who serve their country abroad, in e.g. Afghanistan.
That's what General Petraeus said. And above anything else, I respect Petraeus opinion when it comes to such things - he is a good soldier, and knows his battlefield.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Intolerance is on the increase around the world, IMHO. Foro, you're giving great examples within USA, but we both know shit is stirring in Europe too. Anyway, I just want to conclude this by saying it is a bleeping shame that bigotry catches like wildfire.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I am not sure the radicals are going to get any more radical because some preacher decides to burn the Koran. Really, the argument is also made that anti-war protesters help the enemies resolve by showing internal strife. So, we should stop that as well?
I am not planning on doing any Koran burning, but I do think it is time we stop treating Muslims with extra care. Toss shit on a Jesus picture, and it is free speach and the protestors are just religious nut jobs who should be ignored, but show Muhammed in a cartoon or on an episode of South Park and all hell is going to break loose.
I am not planning on doing any Koran burning, but I do think it is time we stop treating Muslims with extra care. Toss shit on a Jesus picture, and it is free speach and the protestors are just religious nut jobs who should be ignored, but show Muhammed in a cartoon or on an episode of South Park and all hell is going to break loose.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't burn the Koran; I'm saying that it's going to give the bad guys propaganda. Of course, so does anything we do that offends Islam.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
LooseCannon said:
Exactly, which is why I do not understand the backlash, pretty much anything short of joining Islam offends the radicals. If it was not this guy burning the books, it would be something else next week. If we did not give them propaganda, I am certain they would just make something up.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
I agree with you to a point. I think that there is definitely a double standard that should be talked about. What I don't agree with is sensationalsim. People who do stuff like burn the Quran because it'll piss Muslims off.
Notice though, that South Park had the prophet Mohammed's effigy exposed on an earlier episode of South Park. As far as I know, there was no hoopla in that incident. Only in the latest incident was there a controversy.
The problems within Islam should definitely be talked about, but such overt methods as Quran burning is only going to result in greater anger, resentment and hostilities. I think that Westerners need to refocus on what it is they expect from Muslims, and what are good methods of reaching them without sacrificing free-speech, nor deliberately provoking them.
And never mind the extremists, i.e. the ones who are willing to initiate violence. Those people are unreachable, foregone.
Notice though, that South Park had the prophet Mohammed's effigy exposed on an earlier episode of South Park. As far as I know, there was no hoopla in that incident. Only in the latest incident was there a controversy.
The problems within Islam should definitely be talked about, but such overt methods as Quran burning is only going to result in greater anger, resentment and hostilities. I think that Westerners need to refocus on what it is they expect from Muslims, and what are good methods of reaching them without sacrificing free-speech, nor deliberately provoking them.
And never mind the extremists, i.e. the ones who are willing to initiate violence. Those people are unreachable, foregone.
It's a bad idea, absolutely, because it's not going to lead to discourse. It is free speech (aside from the fact that they were denied a burn permit), and I support their right to do it, but I think it's a bad idea, just like I would say burning the Bible is a bad idea. It doesn't move the discourse forward.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Right. And I don't see a point. Burning a religious text is not going to make the burner appear more rational. There are plenty of other avenues open to show problems that result when religion gets mixed up in such things as politics, economics, etc.
As an aside, some atheists are just as militant. Usually, they're the ones that lived under the thumb of some religious authority.
As an aside, some atheists are just as militant. Usually, they're the ones that lived under the thumb of some religious authority.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I do not think it is a good idea either, burning books in general is a bad idea. However given the uproar that has happened over writing a book (Rushdie (sp?)) or a cartoon, it really does not take much to set the Muslim rabble rousers off.
The discourse is really shuts off before it begins with anything on this topic as it gets taken over by the discussion of should we even discuss the subject (not on this forum of course, I am speaking of the media in general).
The discourse is really shuts off before it begins with anything on this topic as it gets taken over by the discussion of should we even discuss the subject (not on this forum of course, I am speaking of the media in general).
Genghis Khan said:
Yep, some of them. But a lot of them just get upset when religious folk try to put god into government and get branded as fanatical too.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
LooseCannon said:
Well, I agree with complete separation of church and state. As somewhat stated a couple of pages ago, that's one of the key pillars of a free society.
I mean...if someone wants to pray to Allah or Jesus or Bob Marley in their own time on their dime, that's their business. If they want me to pray to whoever when I file my taxes, that's not fucking cool at all. So....yeah.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
bearfan said:
I see your point with Salman Rushdie. But that's the whole thing with Islam. I have not read 'The Satanic Verses' but my understanding is that the book is equivalent of comparing Virgin Mary to a whore. The main problem with Islam, like Christianity before, is that church and state are not separated. Religious zealots would love to have this marriage in United States. Pefect recipe for peace around the world (sarcasm!).
EDIT: I can't believe I mispelled Salman. I can't believe no one has caught onto it.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Yes, Genghis, intolerance increases everywhere, but the way the hate spreads rapidly in the US -and especially the way it is expressed by US civilians- is new, at least for me. Just look what happened in the last couple of weeks. It really deserves some attention.
Here you go: 7 and a half minutes item. Check it out, this insightful item on Islamophobia on the rise in the USA.
http://nieuwsuur.nl/video/183430-vrees- ... in-vs.html
Warning: there's a disgusting hatespeech in it.
Political reaction on the burn-a-Quran plans:
Clinton condems Quran burning.
Forostar said:
Here you go: 7 and a half minutes item. Check it out, this insightful item on Islamophobia on the rise in the USA.
http://nieuwsuur.nl/video/183430-vrees- ... in-vs.html
Warning: there's a disgusting hatespeech in it.
Political reaction on the burn-a-Quran plans:
Clinton condems Quran burning.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I really think this is overblown a bit, there is certainly a vocal (IMO) vast minority of people expressing this as there is anywhere else (perhaps change Islamic to some other group). For the most part, I think Americans see the difference between non-radical and radical Muslims
A few points, the radicals amongst the Islamists should be watched and are far more intolerant than the vast majority of Americans. It is perfectly fine to challenge Islam on
1) theological grounds (for those who are into that sort of thing, I am not)
2) actions of their radicals (or really radicals anywhere).
3) the way Islam treats non-Muslims
4) the way Islam treats women
5) the actions of Muslim states
6) The way Islam depicts the Jews
7) Those clerics that openly promote violence
probably a few more ....
I am not suggesting Forostar is saying this, but there are many valid criticisms against Islam and to mention them in any forum from academia to parody is cited as intolerant by some people. There are things we should not be tolerant of, that would include many tenents and actions of Islamists.
A few points, the radicals amongst the Islamists should be watched and are far more intolerant than the vast majority of Americans. It is perfectly fine to challenge Islam on
1) theological grounds (for those who are into that sort of thing, I am not)
2) actions of their radicals (or really radicals anywhere).
3) the way Islam treats non-Muslims
4) the way Islam treats women
5) the actions of Muslim states
6) The way Islam depicts the Jews
7) Those clerics that openly promote violence
probably a few more ....
I am not suggesting Forostar is saying this, but there are many valid criticisms against Islam and to mention them in any forum from academia to parody is cited as intolerant by some people. There are things we should not be tolerant of, that would include many tenents and actions of Islamists.