USA Politics

Feminsim destroyed America. The idea was to get women in the workplace so that's double the income tax for gov, but the pendulum swang too far, and the family unit and common morals are breaking down as a result. Now we have a generation of American women all competing for 'America's Next Top Hooker'. I am an Australian and hope we never sell out the way America did, but it's slowly happening.  :mad:
 
Now that's just straight-up bullshit. The family unit is a myth; common morals were never common.
Allow me to further explain.

The "family unit", aka "nuclear family" is a product of the 1950s boom era in Western society. Post WW2 economics gave most families the ability to live apart from family and friends in self-contained units. Previous to that, the norm was for brothers and sisters or parents and children to live together on farms or in apartments, especially with immigrant groups. During the 1950s and the proliferation of the middle class, individual siblings could afford to part from their families; the people who aged to retirement in the 1960s could afford to live on their pensions.

There are few statistics that show single-parent families are any less valuable than multiple parent ones excepting in time spent, and children that come from single-parent families aren't any more likely to commit crimes or go into drug abuse problems.

Now, we all like the idea of having a nuclear family, but that's just not going to happen for most of us. I came from one, and that makes me unique. My best friend has two adoptive siblings; my other best friend has a single mother who divorced young from his father.

The nuclear family has stopped being so important because it was a sham to begin with. Social convention kept relationships together that turned sour; divorce became the norm not because of feminism, but because 50% of marriages shouldn't continue. Children are pretty tough and sort it out most of the time.

And what's a common moral? Common morals change over time and adapt to circumstance. It was considered immoral in 1939 for a woman in the USA to show anything more than an ankle. By 1945 the knee was expected. By 1950, back to the bloody ankle. The same for today - morals (or at least social ones) fluctuate. We accept things today (divorce, same sex marriage, atheism) that were taboo topics when my parents were children. When my parents were children things were becoming acceptable that weren't acceptable when my grandparents were young (interracial marriage, a Catholic president, women working in greater numbers). And when THEY were young, we were discussing how society would die because of a new thing called "radio" bringing "music" into homes everywhere!

It's kinda the same old tone. Society is dying because of X and Y; but X and Y are always happening.
 
Open your eyes and look around. Your whole society has been 'dumbed down' by Feminism. The family unit is a tried and true method that has worked for as long as humans have been around. For you to say a single parent family is just aswell off as a double parent family is nonsense in it's rawest form. Sure, they might get by, but life is more than just getting by. The problem is, people refuse to take responsiblity for their actions anymore and make poor decisions on the assumption that everything and everyone is expendable.
 
My ex-girlfriend has three little girls and rakes in 180,000 dollars a year... I'd say she more than get's by. on the flip side a very good friend of mine lives with her boyfriend and father of her second child, is close to her first husband who gladly dolls out 400/month for child support... yet they are "scraping by...." so much for the tried and true "nuclear family."

Thank you Vortex for showing us  that just when we thought radical Islam is the issue you prove that ignorance is the real problem...
 
Onhell said:
My ex-girlfriend has three little girls and rakes in 180,000 dollars a year... I'd say she more than get's by. on the flip side a very good friend of mine lives with her boyfriend and father of her second child, is close to her first husband who gladly dolls out 400/month for child support... yet they are "scraping by...." so much for the tried and true "nuclear family."

Thank you Vortex for showing us  that just when we thought radical Islam is the issue you prove that ignorance is the real problem...
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You live on cloud 9 my friend. She must be flat out on her back to earn those bucks, or you're just full of shit, which sounds more reasonable. How come she dumped your arse? And let me ask you, why is the your friends boyfriend/father paying child support when he lives with his kids, you really are just full of shit Pal.
 
Official warning to Vortex: Clear up your act.

Disagreeing with someone is fine, but offending him personally isn't.
 
Perun said:
Official warning to Vortex: Clear up your act.

Disagreeing with someone is fine, but offending him personally isn't.
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That's fine, but he offended me first with:

"Thank you Vortex for showing us  that just when we thought radical Islam is the issue you prove that ignorance is the real problem..."

...and you seem to have overlooked,

"Now that's just straight-up bullshit. The family unit is a myth; common morals were never common."

Anyway, no point having a discussion in here, sounds like most can't stand the heat, let's just agree to disagree.
 
Onhell said:
I can't believe I have to explain that quote.... take it however you want.
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There is not need to explain it, I know exactly what you mean.  What I do not buy is excusing the acts of people by saying "other people did the same thing in the past (or to a lesser degree now).  What is the point of that?  If Iran were to institute slavery tomorrow, are you suggesting the US could not condem it because we had slavery in the 1800s?

In the world certainly no country/people is without sin.
 
Vortex said:
You live on cloud 9 my friend. She must be flat out on her back to earn those bucks, or you're just full of shit, which sounds more reasonable. How come she dumped your arse? And let me ask you, why is the your friends boyfriend/father paying child support when he lives with his kids, you really are just full of shit Pal.
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No need to get personal and you act like if you've never been in a relationship. There are many factors that go into a relationship any of which can break it up. IF YOU MUST know. She owned her own software business, has a Masters in international business and used to work for the local fire department. She is currently an E-7 NCO in the U.S Army fighting the very war discussed in this thread, in other words she's got more balls then you will ever have. And since apparently you have reading comprehension issues too, I'll spell it out for you. My friends FIRST husband (read the post again) pays her child support and she lives with her current boyfriend/fiance...

bearfan said:
There is not need to explain it, I know exactly what you mean.  What I do not buy is excusing the acts of people by saying "other people did the same thing in the past (or to a lesser degree now).   What is the point of that?   If Iran were to institute slavery tomorrow, are you suggesting the US could not condem it because we had slavery in the 1800s?

In the world certainly no country/people is without sin.
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Oh no, no. I wasn't trying to excuse it. In fact if  Iran instituted slavery tomorrow the U.S totally could condemn it as they used to have it and now DOESN'T. BUT how come the U.S condemns countries for seeking nuclear power/weapons when they themselves have stockpiles of weapons and many post-industrial countries having plenty of nuclear power plants?

There are many things wrong with the Middle East, but their religion isn't one of them. They are mostly pissed at the West in general as their condition can easily be traced to British and later American intervention way back to AT LEAST WWI and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. They are reacting, however late, to what they conceive as an invasion, physical and cultural. They are not only fighting Western military presence, they are fighting McDonald's and MTV...

And that struggle is little different from the "invasion" radical conservatives feel in the U.S from the "illegals" and "gays" in this country. I merely wanted to put some perspective in the mix.
 
The difference between the US having nuclear weapons and Iran, is that Iran would be more likely to use them, either openly in an armed conflict or subversively. I don't think they would use them, because it would mean annihilation for them if they did. I think they want to have them to be a world power. Countries act only in their own best interests, and for all the sabre rattling, I don't think Iran is crazy enough to use one.
 
I do not think religion in itself is a problem, how people choose to use it is the issue.  That is certainly the case in most every religion going back to the sun worshipers, mayans, etc.

As for the nukes, it is certainly in the world's best interest if fewer people had them, I think the west and the Soviets proved to be able to be responsible with them, I do not have the same trust with some Middle Eastern countries.

I have no problems with gays, think it is fine if they are married in some way in fact. 

Illegals are a much more complex subject, and nowhere near a US problem.  What is unfortunate is that it will be impossible in the US to come up with any kind of coherent policy to deal with the issue that makes sense for the US as a country and towards individuals who are here or want to come here.
 
Vortex said:
Open your eyes and look around.
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This isn't an argument. It's an appeal to emotion.

Your whole society has been 'dumbed down' by Feminism.
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Just a statement that is pretty well false.

The family unit is a tried and true method that has worked for as long as humans have been around. For you to say a single parent family is just aswell off as a double parent family is nonsense in it's rawest form. Sure, they might get by, but life is more than just getting by.
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Plenty of double-parent families just get by. That's more about affluence than anything else. The family unit isn't "tried and true". It's a recent construction. Before then, you would have an entire family in a household; very often, independent spouses raising children after the premature death of a husband before re-marrying, or unless the eldest boy was old/strong enough to take over the family business. The idea of husband, wife, 2.5 kids is a Cold War ideal.

The problem is, people refuse to take responsiblity for their actions anymore and make poor decisions on the assumption that everything and everyone is expendable.
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You're absolutely right. The problem is that this has nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with parents in general deciding to turn off, and the increase in machine aids to parenting. A woman at home all day is just as likely to turn the TV on and ignore her kids as a babysitter. The problem isn't with women leaving the house; it's all parents, everywhere, sucking harder.
 
Vortex said:
Open your eyes and look around. Your whole society has been 'dumbed down' by Feminism. The family unit is a tried and true method that has worked for as long as humans have been around. For you to say a single parent family is just aswell off as a double parent family is nonsense in it's rawest form. Sure, they might get by, but life is more than just getting by. The problem is, people refuse to take responsiblity for their actions anymore and make poor decisions on the assumption that everything and everyone is expendable.
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You're funny.

Here's what the most basic form of nonsense for ya: thinking that it's better to have a dysfunctional nuclear family than a peaceful and happy albeit unconventional one.

Which reminds me of what is probably the smartest comment I've heard on Family Guy, "...so two straight people who hate each other have more of a right to get married than two gay people who love each other?"
 
From the LA Times, the pastor in Florida cancelled his Koran burning party on September 11.  Thank goodness, now the Earth will survive another day.
 
Next week somone will bite into a potato chip that looks like Muhammed and kill a few people in retribution ... or some other nonesense.

Also read that AP was not planning on showing any images of the burning had it occured, some brave journalism there and I am sure they were not the only ones.
 
Holy shit, this topic took an ugly turn. Still, a few notes:

1. Wasted, I don't think it's good to just not talk about sensitive things.
It's good to talk and discuss things, even if you need to criticize fellow countrymen.

2. It makes me angry to see that Onhell got so offended. Fuck, that was not fair.

3. Bearfan is comparing apples to pears constantly because he doesn't want to see problems in his own country.
Not everyone is going to fall for that. I am wellinformed and have the right to express my feelings about what's going on. To constantly compare with other countries or religions won't help to draw our attention away from the subject. Keep trying, it won't work.
 
I do not believe I ever implied that you do not have the right to your opinion, nor did I say there are no problems in the US as there certainly are problems here.  But also plenty of things that are positive here as well and all things being equal, I feel fortunate to have been born here versus other countries that are far far worse.
 
Forostar said:
Holy shit, this topic took an ugly turn. Still, a few notes:

1. Wasted, I don't think it's good to just not talk about sensitive things.
It's good to talk and discuss things, even if you need to criticize fellow countrymen.
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Its not that we don't talk because its 'sensitive'.  Most of the people I know believe it's status quo to accept all these things.  To most of us it is like stating "I breathe air" or "I drink water".  These things are so commonly accepted, it doesn't get discussed.  Only on occasion, when we see some madness, do we stop and say 'WTF?'.   Usually, more than anything, we ignore ignorance.  It's not really worth the effort to disspell any madness-- the sane people will know what is happening, and understand, the extremists will not be swayed a different way, so why argue with someone that will only frustrate you?  That is my take, at least.  I'm happy to debate issues with someone that has an open mind to my discussion.  
 
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