USA Politics

I do think at least some of the protests are in response to the lockdowns (not pro or against them), but it added to general pent up anger and this is an opportunity to get out
 
Forostar said:
Showing some empathy is not a bad idea.
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Usually I would say yes, but during a global pandemic? Nah.

For the record, if it was police brutality in, say France, then I think protests in the Netherlands might work. USA just isn't the type of country that would listen to other countries in this regard. Especially not now, with Trump in charge.
 
A friend of mine and I were talking about it and as much as the protests are against police brutality, its as much about people fed up from having been in lockdown. Several articles also point out that much of the destruction can be traced to white supremacist groups taking advantage of the situation commiting arson and blaming it on the protesters to inflame racial tensions a la Charles Manson.
 
Onhell said:
A friend of mine and I were talking about it and as much as the protests are against police brutality, its as much about people fed up from having been in lockdown. Several articles also point out that much of the destruction can be traced to white supremacist groups taking advantage of the situation commiting arson and blaming it on the protesters to inflame racial tensions a la Charles Manson.
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It's a combination, absolutely. You can be sure that there would not be as many white people fired up about joining a protest and/or looting if they weren't also looking for an excuse to get outside and do something while being seen and heard.
 
Onhell said:
A friend of mine and I were talking about it and as much as the protests are against police brutality, its as much about people fed up from having been in lockdown. Several articles also point out that much of the destruction can be traced to white supremacist groups taking advantage of the situation commiting arson and blaming it on the protesters to inflame racial tensions a la Charles Manson.
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That could be true to an extent, but I find it very hard to believe that the protesters are all benign. I find the "much of the destruction is actually white supremacists" angle a bit disingenuous. There are plenty of violent left-wing groups around and you can best believe those people are on the streets.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Protests that turn into looting aren't going to change anything in America either. It's just going to further the systemic racism they are protesting against.
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Exactly ..not to mention people have been killed during this and small and large businesses that were already hurting due to Covid get the double whammy of having their stores looted and/or damaged which helps nothing and no one.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Protests that turn into looting aren't going to change anything in America either. It's just going to further the systemic racism they are protesting against.
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Yeah, that's unfortunately the case with many cases of street protesting. Too often it turns into a collective act of revenge rather than a movement looking to set a precedent or push people to do something about the situation. It also ends up alienating people who'd otherwise be sympathetic to the street protesters.
 
The Flash said:
That could be true to an extent, but I find it very hard to believe that the protesters are all benign. There are plenty of violent left-wing groups around and you can best believe those people are on the streets.
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Agreed, but the articles mentioned the burnt houses in the twin cities AWAY from the protests and looting. Also, a lot of the destruction during the protests has also been linked to inflitrated hooigans.

I'd also like to point out that focusing on the looting as stupid, pointless or the "wrong" way to go about it is missing the point entirely. This is about police killing people, even now during the protests people have died being shot with rubber bullets and ran over by police cars. Eyes on the price folks.
 
The Flash said:
Yeah, that's unfortunately the case with many cases of street protesting. Too often it turns into collective act of revenge rather than a movement looking to set a precedent or push people to do something about the situation. It also ends up alienating people who'd otherwise be sympathetic to the street protesters.
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Exactly. I'm incredibly sympathetic to the protestors, but mob mentality is real and the people organizing the looting are counting on it.

Onhell said:
I'd also like to point out that focusing on the looting as stupid, pointless or the "wrong" way to go about it is missing the point entirely. This is about police killing people, even now during the protests people have died being shot with rubber bullets and ran over by police cars. Eyes on the price folks.
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Perception of looting vs. the reality of looting is not the problem. The assholes that are looting are the ones diverting the message. Looting is not right. Looting does not prove anything. Looting does not make a point because they are not looting with purpose. They're not looting police stations to make a point to cops, they're taking fucking shoes. Sorry, but I'm not gonna look at a bunch of assholes stealing property from family-run businesses and say, "Yeah, man, they're making a difference."
 
Onhell said:
I'd also like to point out that focusing on the looting as stupid, pointless or the "wrong" way to go about it is missing the point entirely.
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I disagree. The methods alienate thousands upon thousands of people who are in agreement with the protesters on the issue. If I was a citizen of Minneapolis, for example, I'd be in agreement with the protesters on the issue, but there's no chance in hell I'd go out on the streets and be part of the acts of violence going on. I'm sure there are many who feel the same way and that's a major loss for the movement. Then you have the long-term affect of trivializing the issue as well, the methods become an issue in an of themselves and take away from the central issue.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Exactly. I'm incredibly sympathetic to the protestors, but mob mentality is real and the people organizing the looting are counting on it.



Perception of looting vs. the reality of looting is not the problem. The assholes that are looting are the ones diverting the message. Looting is not right. Looting does not prove anything. Looting does not make a point because they are not looting with purpose. They're not looting police stations to make a point to cops, they're taking fucking shoes. Sorry, but I'm not gonna look at a bunch of assholes stealing property from family-run businesses and say, "Yeah, man, they're making a difference."
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This and add people have been killed by the looters/mobs as well. I have zero problem with people protesting (signs, etc) ... I have a slight problem with blocking intersections/roads ... major problem with looting and destruction .. those people should be arrested post haste
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Perception of looting vs. the reality of looting is not the problem. The assholes that are looting are the ones diverting the message. Looting is not right. Looting does not prove anything. Looting does not make a point because they are not looting with purpose. They're not looting police stations to make a point to cops, they're taking fucking shoes. Sorry, but I'm not gonna look at a bunch of assholes stealing property from family-run businesses and say, "Yeah, man, they're making a difference."
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Your presuming there that the people looting are genuine protestors who then decided to loot. Which no doubt some are, but there's probably a fair amount of looters who are just opportunists who have no interest in any protests.
 
srfc said:
Your presuming there that the people looting are genuine protestors who then decided to loot. Which no doubt some are, but there's probably a fair amount of looters who are just opportunists who have no interest in any protests.
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Sorry if it sounded that way. I have no illusions about who is doing the looting (or at the very least starting the looting). I know many of the protestors and they're appalled by the looting, but assholes are seizing on the opportunity and creating panic. I'm sure at least 75% of the looters (here in Chicago anyway) are doing it with intent and give zero fucks about the protest.
 
The Flash said:
I disagree. The methods alienate thousands upon thousands of people who are in agreement with the protesters on the issue. If I was a citizen of Minneapolis, for example, I'd be in agreement with the protesters on the issue, but there's no chance in hell I'd go out on the streets and be part of the acts of violence going on. I'm sure there are many who feel the same way and that's a major loss for the movement. Then you have the long-term affect of trivializing the issue as well, the methods become an issue in an of themselves and take away from the central issue.
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Those methods have always been there. Right now a lot of (white) people are putting all these cherry picked MLK quotes about peaceful protests during the civil rights movement. News flash, it was violent. He was one of the most hated men in America during the 60s and the people quoting him today would probably be the firsts to condemn him and celebrate his death back then.
Malcolm X pushed for violence, MLK said looting is the language of the unheard. It's very privilidged and comfy to tell people how to do it. You remember the L.A riots after Rodney King? I do... they're seared into my brain even though I was like 6 or 7 years old. 300 years of slavery, 100 years of segregation and Jim Crow. Churches getting bombed, CHILDREN like Emmit Till and Treyvon Martin MURDERED for being FALSELY accused of crimes they didn't commit or looking "suspicious." I think what is going on now is perfectly fine.

My fear is NOTHING will happen. Like the L.A riots and Furgesson protests before these.... they'll ammount to nothing. I hope that isn't the case.
 
srfc said:
Your presuming their that the people looting are genuine protestors who then decided to loot. Which no doubt some are, but there's probably a fair amount of looters who are just opportunists who have no interest in any protests.
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I think some local leaders are going to take a hit for this, the mayor of Minneapolis being a prime example ... on one hand they do not want more incidents with the police, but on the other hand, they let the town run wild, to the point of letting a police station get torched. It has not been handled poorly .. let people protest, but crack down on those doing more than that
 
srfc said:
Your presuming there that the people looting are genuine protestors who then decided to loot. Which no doubt some are, but there's probably a fair amount of looters who are just opportunists who have no interest in any protests.
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Probably, yes. There's also bound to be some people who are "looking for action" - the teenage edgelords and thrill seekers.
 
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