The Official LGBTQ Thread

Now, I am definitely not a homophobe and I’m actually rooting for all the gay people - to go after your love, even if there are even more obstacles in your way than usual, is something which deserves to be rooted for, methinks.

But the gay parades I strongly dislike.

If I was gay, it would probably offense me. With all the latex, naked people, oily skin… I just can’t help but to feel as if it played the “gays are promiscuous/perverted” card.

Which brings me to another point which is the fact how absurdly much are we (society) obsessed with sex. I mean, if I want to be friends with somebody, or if I want to hire an employee, or a babysitter… the last thing really important is whom/what does he/she use to achieve orgasm. It’s everybody’s own thing, is it not? As long as they are consenting adults (and my country has the age of consent set at 15, so “adults”…well…)

Therefore, the label of “heterosexual” or “homosexual” is completely unnecessary. To be “proud” of it (to be proud of who I want to sleep with)… that’s something I don’t and probably won’t understand. I get that homosexual people used to be oppressed in the past (and still are, all over the world), but that’s just switching from one extreme position to another, IMHO.

I know I will look prudish (and maybe I am), but I actually believe sex should be something which is done behind the closed door. Doesn’t matter whether it’s gay or straight. Yes, you are gay and so you take your boyfriend on a date - that’s nice and fine by me. But start slipping tongues down each other’s throat and I will scoff at you. I would scoff at a hetero pair, too. I think it’s inappropriate and I don’t do it myself. When I see pairs holding hands (gay or straight, doesn’t matter), I actually feel it’s very nice and it makes me happy, in the way “awwww, they do love each other”.

(Also, for all the talk of “you can’t control who you fall in love with”, I don’t doubt all of those open-minded people would freak out if they found me banging my own sister, so there’s definitely some amount of hypocrisy too. But that doesn’t bother me at all, so that’s at best an afterthought.)

Hope I didn’t offend anyone. :) I just don't like gay parades, that's all. That being said, I usually don't like parades, full stop. :D

EDIT: Okay, "scoff" is a bit strong. More like "look at you disapprovingly" :halo:
 
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JudasMyGuide said:
I know I will look prudish (and maybe I am)
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Corrected that a bit.

These parades are reactions towards oppression. So yes, it gets a little more extreme than "normally". You don't have to look at a parade. But a bit more understanding about what these events are really about would help.

Anyway, just "don't liking" is fine with me. Forbidding or attacking these parades, that's something else.
 
Gay parades are reactive measures. You can best bet they wouldn't exist if there was no oppression towards LGBT people. They're not proud of "being with the same sex", they're proud of being themselves. They've been, and still are by quite a lot of people, told that they shouldn't be the way they are. So yes, they do go to the extreme opposite. It's by intention.

JudasMyGuide said:
(Also, for all the talk of “you can’t control who you fall in love with”, I don’t doubt all of those open-minded people would freak out if they found me banging my own sister, so there’s definitely some amount of hypocrisy too. But that doesn’t bother me at all, so that’s at best an afterthought.)
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I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Did you just compare homosexuality with incest? If so, there's no hypocrisy. Homosexuality is a natural behaviour. Incest isn't.
 
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The Flash said:
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Did you just compare homosexuality with incest? If so, there's no hypocrisy. Homosexuality is a natural behaviour. Incest isn't.
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How so? How do you define "natural"? There is homosexual behaviour documented among animals, true... but inbreeding is even more common. And it was present in human history. Well, even nowadays, however mostly in the "undeveloped" world. We just decided what to accept and what not.

All the more complicated if you realise that - unlike animals - we also can have romantic feelings... to freakin' anyone.

I had a friend in high school, a really nice girl... who was in love with a family member. For quite some time. Okay. She knew she could do nothing about it. The worst thing? Apart from me, there was absolutely no-one she could talk to about it. She was a pervert, period. She lost two of her supposed "best friends" when she blurted it out when she was drunk. And it broke my heart in two, because she was really nice, never hurt no-one and was miserable all the time. Thank God she managed to pull herself together. If she would have done anything to herself... well, then would I start a fucking crusade.

Also, I stress once again I am not trying to be offensive or anything... just saying that as we get to a higher level of respect towards a group of people who have no choice who they are in love with, we could (and should) IMHO try to respect other people who had no choice in the matter. Just, you know, love everyone, or at least try to do so. Because I believe that's what separates us from the bigots.

I... I'm probably not going to write in this thread anymore, because I'm stepping on a very thin ice here. If you were offended by anything I said, please don't be. Wasn't meant that way. In the beginning all I wanted to say was that I support gays (as a shortcut for LGBTQ, half of the letters I'm not even sure what they stand for, sorry), but I dislike the parades.

(And I think True Blood is stupid, if taken from this angle, even if it was created by a gay man.... because the vampires really are dangerous, before the invention of the titular drink they were feeding on humans and to try and make them sympathetic as the "oppressed ones" really hurts the cause, methinks. I also dislike the L Word, because it's a stupid series with some stupid screenwriting, obnoxious characters etc. So, my main concern is more like http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontShootTheMessage , whether in live action TV or parades ;) )
 
JudasMyGuide said:
How so? How do you define "natural"? There is homosexual behaviour documented among animals, true... but inbreeding is even more common. And it was present in human history. Well, even nowadays, however mostly in the "undeveloped" world. We just decided what to accept and what not.
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Because inbreeding results in defects. Homosexuality does not. Animals develop inbreeding avoidance systems. They don't develop homosexuality avoidance systems. The bolded statement isn't even remotely true in mammals. Homosexual behaviour in mammals is overwhelmingly more common than incestuous behaviour. Because mammals have natural inbreeding avoidance systems that are only exempted when the pattern gets interrupted (e.g. When no non-relative partner is available). Chimpanzees are the only one of the primate species where incestuous behaviour is observed, strictly offspring-mother relation and even in most cases of that, mothers overwhelmingly reject the offspring. Male offspring chimp is thought to look for the mother in times of stress.

https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=OW1nuQxcIQgC&pg=PA6&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.livescience.com/2226-incest-taboo-nature.html


I fail to see how something that's directly responsible for abnormalities in a species is comparable to something that isn't. You brought up the romantical aspect of it, which is an argument that defeats the purpose in this case, because the "naturalness" aspect of this is strictly a sexual matter. If you go beyond the concept of sexuality, then one can argue that pervertedness is a natural behaviour as well, because it exists in nature. That includes the paraphilia such as pedophilia and necrophilia.

I would think it'd be fair to argue for the "acceptability" of a thing that doesn't cause any harm to a species whatsoever, and for the "unacceptability" of a thing that does. Inbreeding causes inbreeding depression and messes up the biological fitness of a species to survive. Engaging in sexual activies with a child messes up their psychological and physical development. Homosexuality features none of these aspects that cause "harm" to our species.

I will point out though, that none of the "abnormal" sexual behaviours justifies the isolation of a person. I don't understand why being an incestuous person, a pedophile or a necrophile warrants isolation from society without the person having acted upon them. This is probably as political incorrect as you can get but not every incestuous person is a rapist and not every pedophile is a child molester.
 
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Inbreeding doesn't result in defects immediately, it takes some 'generations' for DNA damage to occur.
Gay parades should obey public laws of the place in question, but it should also follow the general sentiment of the population itself. You're not going to get sympathies even from a slightly conservative community with sex going on there.
I don't share JudasMyGuide 's view because right to assemble a peaceful demonstration is one of the basics in democracy. Even if the majority doesn't like that, you still need to be able to parade. But it's not as harmless as Forostar would put it. It's a known fact that a party-type parade's attenders are basically 50% sex&drugs tourists.
 
Attenders? People who walk along or spectators?

In Amsterdam, a very large number of people is attending, many citizens of the capital included. Take that fact and throw it in the dustbin already. ;-)
 
JudasMyGuide said:
I... I'm probably not going to write in this thread anymore, because I'm stepping on a very thin ice here. If you were offended by anything I said, please don't be. Wasn't meant that way. In the beginning all I wanted to say was that I support gays (as a shortcut for LGBTQ, half of the letters I'm not even sure what they stand for, sorry), but I dislike the parades.
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I don't think you said anything horrible, other than assuming all pride parades are orgies, and I think there is a legitimate point about people who fall in love with family members - it's just that we have very good, valid reasons for prohibiting inbreeding. It's generally not a common thing, but inbreeding certainly happens in nature, too.

The natural argument is a silly one, no matter which way you cut it. It is natural for the human animal to do all sorts of stupid things that we wouldn't do right now, like take a shit whenever we need to take a shit, wherever it happens to be convenient to take a shit. We don't do this for a lot of reasons, but the most primary reason is sometime in the past we discovered that keeping giant piles of shit near where we live causes people to die of terrible diseases. So rather than let people crap wherever they want, we make them crap in toilets.
 
The natural thing is more of a matter of semantics, probably. I don't use the word natural for "something that exists in nature" in this context, because it completely empties the word and makes it redundant. Completely unacceptable things that occur are also natural. Paranoid schizophrenia is natural. The cold blooded attitude of a serial killer is natural. Everything that happens is natural.

The bottom line is: What's good for the species and what's not. The reasons why we prohibit inbreeding are what seperates it from homosexuality. Hence I don't think comparing them makes sense.

Feelings are different from actions. I don't think anybody should be frowned upon for what they feel. They can't help themselves. Being in love with your sister is not the ideal, but it's acceptable. Banging your sister, however, isn't. Acting upon that initial instinct is stepping over the fine line. As I put it in my most recent post:

The Flash said:
I will point out though, that none of the "abnormal" sexual behaviours justifies the isolation of a person. I don't understand why being an incestuous person, a pedophile or a necrophile warrants isolation from society without the person having acted upon them. This is probably as political incorrect as you can get but not every incestuous person is a rapist and not every pedophile is a child molester.
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JudasMyGuide initially said "those open minded people would freak out if I said I was banging my sister", then provided an example (His high school friend) that did not feature acting upon feelings. Completely different accounts. Banging your sister is incest. Being in love with your sister isn't. Acting upon homosexuality isn't wrong, therefore it's a different account. The comparison and the call out for hypocrisy would only makes sense if homosexual activity was a bad thing.
 
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LooseCannon said:
It is natural for the human animal to do all sorts of stupid things that we wouldn't do right now, like take a shit whenever we need to take a shit, wherever it happens to be convenient to take a shit. We don't do this for a lot of reasons, but the most primary reason is sometime in the past we discovered that keeping giant piles of shit near where we live causes people to die of terrible diseases. So rather than let people crap wherever they want, we make them crap in toilets.
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You are to be applauded for making an effort to articulate what should be plainly obvious to anyone, etc...
:p
 
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