The J.R.R. Tolkien Topic (publications and adaptations)
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
@CriedWhenBrucieLeft and others:
In historic move, Christopher Tolkien resigns as director of Tolkien Estate
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/201...olkien-resigns-as-director-of-tolkien-estate/
It turns out a “Lord of the Rings” TV series isn’t the biggest Tolkien news of the week or the month or the year.
Christopher Tolkien, son and literary heir of J.R.R. Tolkien, resigned from the Tolkien Estate. And his departure changes everything.
Christopher is 93 and just this year edited and published one of his father’s works “Beren and Luthien,” which as even casual Tolkienites know, refers to his parents with the names of those characters adorning their tombstones.
In the preface of the book he writes, “this is (preemptively) my last book in the long series of editions of my father’s writings.” It seems he was planning to retire already. Personally, learning the greatest Tolkien scholar, and a man who has honored his father in an exemplary way, has left the care of his father’s legacy to others feels like reading the end of LOTR where Galadriel, Elrond and the other great elves leave Middle-earth. There is a keen sadness, but admiration and beauty as well.
But even if you aren’t sentimental, he deserves any Tolkien fan’s deep respect. But it bears repeating, this changes everything.
The news reached me by friend Michael Martinez via Twitter on his blog. Martinez has an exceptional mind for Tolkien.
He understood perfectly that Christopher R. Tolkien’s departure signals the end of an era.
“With Christopher’s departure as an officer of the Tolkien Estate (which was incorporated in 2011), the long-awaited “rights frenzy” for Tolkien properties may soon begin,” he wrote.
Yes, and it seemingly has already happened. This is a definite piece of the puzzle of the recent news of the Amazon Video deal. I had heard through rock solid, but not reportable sources several years ago that other members of the estate were much more willing to negotiate J.R.R. Tolkien’s properties while Christopher was far more interested in preserving legacy than money.
The settlement between Warner Bros. and the Tolkien Estate settled an $80 million lawsuit July 3. Part of the statement the studio released at the time was unusually upbeat for an entity that just paid out big money:
“The parties are pleased that they have amicably resolved this matter and look forward to working together in the future.”
The future mentioned in that statement is this week and beyond, and it was obviously in the works then. According to a U.K. government website, Christopher resigned on Aug. 31. One would expect formal resignations of this nature take time to manage legally, so it also was in the works for some time I suspect. What I wouldn’t give to have been in the room for that passing of the torch.
So in quick fashion, after the seismic change, the estate has sold the television rights for book “The Lord of the Rings.” Warners paid the court dispute so there would be a relationship moving forward and Amazon’s Jeff Bezos rewarded both entities handsomely.
Another important thing to note here, and another piece of the puzzle, is that the television rights to “The Hobbit” and “Lord of the Rings” were NOT sold when J.R.R. Tolkien sold the movie rights in 1969. Those rights were for motion pictures. TORn staffer and author Kristin Thompson informed our staff about this. She has first-hand documentation and as author of “The Frodo Franchise,” knows this stuff as well as anybody. And obviously you can and should buy her book on Amazon.com. I believe another TORn news article is expected on just this point.
This explains why the estate was so involved in the Amazon deal; they were selling something. It also explains why Middle-earth Enterprises was absent from the latest news. (Correction: This originally said Tolkien Enterprises, a name previously used that is not correct. The story has been updated.)
But the bigger ramifications of all this are far greater than a multi-season Amazon series. The new leadership of the estate seem much more willing to deal Tolkien properties than Christopher was and this confirms my well placed sources.
This opens up Tolkien and Middle-earth as possible franchises in the same way that Harry Potter’s world is a place you can visit at Universal Studios or that Disney will soon have a Star Wars area. There are few properties in the world that can be talked about in the same way as Middle-earth. Warner Bros. see the value and so does Amazon.
That doesn’t mean the Tolkien Estate will move toward making the rights to “Beren And Luthien” available but it does mean my wish to produce “The Silmarillion” as HBO series is slightly less impossible than it was before. That is what has changed really. Things once impossible are now possible.
The estate may elect to only allow more content based solely on “The Hobbit” and “The Lord of the Rings.” Or they may carefully cultivate the entire library.
Because of the depth of J.R.R. Tolkien’s legendarium, there is a virtually endless fountain of material. As Martinez points out in his blog, what will be produced is essentially fan fiction. As Disney has expanded the Galaxy far-far away, and HBO is planning its growth of George R.R. Martin’s Westeros world, so too could Amazon and Warner Bros expand Middle-earth.
Much of that possibility rests with the estate but just Appendix A in “The Lord of the Rings” offers a wealth of content. The imagination soars with possibilities.
This will no doubt anger many fans and delight many others, as the Amazon deal already has. Some don’t want to see the compromise of the author’s vision. Funny enough, this also seems to have a whole new batch of fans upset because they don’t want Amazon’s product to compromise Peter Jackson’s vision of Tolkien’s vision.
The officers of the Tolkien Estate still count among their numbers Tolkien’s youngest child Priscilla Tolkien and other grandchildren in the family.
This is over-long already but a final word on Christopher Tolkien’s departure. Here is a man who is a treasure, and who carries in his heart and mind the voice and essence of his father. The significance of his departure cannot be over stated.
I close with another poignant passage he wrote about his father in the preface of his final contribution to the Tolkien legacy, “Beren and Luthien.”
“In a letter to me on the subject of my mother, written in the year after her death, which was also the year before his own, he wrote of his overwhelming sense of bereavement, and of his wish to have Luthien inscribed beneath her name on the grave. He returned in that letter … to the origin of the tale of Beren and Luthien in a small woodland glade filled with hemlock flowers near Roos in Yorkshire, where she danced; and he said: ‘But the story has gone crooked, and I am left, and I cannot plead before the inexorable Mandos.’
Thank you Christopher Tolkien. We are going to miss you and your strength and determination to contribute to and preserve the legacy of your father.
In historic move, Christopher Tolkien resigns as director of Tolkien Estate
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/201...olkien-resigns-as-director-of-tolkien-estate/
It turns out a “Lord of the Rings” TV series isn’t the biggest Tolkien news of the week or the month or the year.
Christopher Tolkien, son and literary heir of J.R.R. Tolkien, resigned from the Tolkien Estate. And his departure changes everything.
Christopher is 93 and just this year edited and published one of his father’s works “Beren and Luthien,” which as even casual Tolkienites know, refers to his parents with the names of those characters adorning their tombstones.
In the preface of the book he writes, “this is (preemptively) my last book in the long series of editions of my father’s writings.” It seems he was planning to retire already. Personally, learning the greatest Tolkien scholar, and a man who has honored his father in an exemplary way, has left the care of his father’s legacy to others feels like reading the end of LOTR where Galadriel, Elrond and the other great elves leave Middle-earth. There is a keen sadness, but admiration and beauty as well.
But even if you aren’t sentimental, he deserves any Tolkien fan’s deep respect. But it bears repeating, this changes everything.
The news reached me by friend Michael Martinez via Twitter on his blog. Martinez has an exceptional mind for Tolkien.
He understood perfectly that Christopher R. Tolkien’s departure signals the end of an era.
“With Christopher’s departure as an officer of the Tolkien Estate (which was incorporated in 2011), the long-awaited “rights frenzy” for Tolkien properties may soon begin,” he wrote.
Yes, and it seemingly has already happened. This is a definite piece of the puzzle of the recent news of the Amazon Video deal. I had heard through rock solid, but not reportable sources several years ago that other members of the estate were much more willing to negotiate J.R.R. Tolkien’s properties while Christopher was far more interested in preserving legacy than money.
The settlement between Warner Bros. and the Tolkien Estate settled an $80 million lawsuit July 3. Part of the statement the studio released at the time was unusually upbeat for an entity that just paid out big money:
“The parties are pleased that they have amicably resolved this matter and look forward to working together in the future.”
The future mentioned in that statement is this week and beyond, and it was obviously in the works then. According to a U.K. government website, Christopher resigned on Aug. 31. One would expect formal resignations of this nature take time to manage legally, so it also was in the works for some time I suspect. What I wouldn’t give to have been in the room for that passing of the torch.
So in quick fashion, after the seismic change, the estate has sold the television rights for book “The Lord of the Rings.” Warners paid the court dispute so there would be a relationship moving forward and Amazon’s Jeff Bezos rewarded both entities handsomely.
Another important thing to note here, and another piece of the puzzle, is that the television rights to “The Hobbit” and “Lord of the Rings” were NOT sold when J.R.R. Tolkien sold the movie rights in 1969. Those rights were for motion pictures. TORn staffer and author Kristin Thompson informed our staff about this. She has first-hand documentation and as author of “The Frodo Franchise,” knows this stuff as well as anybody. And obviously you can and should buy her book on Amazon.com. I believe another TORn news article is expected on just this point.
This explains why the estate was so involved in the Amazon deal; they were selling something. It also explains why Middle-earth Enterprises was absent from the latest news. (Correction: This originally said Tolkien Enterprises, a name previously used that is not correct. The story has been updated.)
But the bigger ramifications of all this are far greater than a multi-season Amazon series. The new leadership of the estate seem much more willing to deal Tolkien properties than Christopher was and this confirms my well placed sources.
This opens up Tolkien and Middle-earth as possible franchises in the same way that Harry Potter’s world is a place you can visit at Universal Studios or that Disney will soon have a Star Wars area. There are few properties in the world that can be talked about in the same way as Middle-earth. Warner Bros. see the value and so does Amazon.
That doesn’t mean the Tolkien Estate will move toward making the rights to “Beren And Luthien” available but it does mean my wish to produce “The Silmarillion” as HBO series is slightly less impossible than it was before. That is what has changed really. Things once impossible are now possible.
The estate may elect to only allow more content based solely on “The Hobbit” and “The Lord of the Rings.” Or they may carefully cultivate the entire library.
Because of the depth of J.R.R. Tolkien’s legendarium, there is a virtually endless fountain of material. As Martinez points out in his blog, what will be produced is essentially fan fiction. As Disney has expanded the Galaxy far-far away, and HBO is planning its growth of George R.R. Martin’s Westeros world, so too could Amazon and Warner Bros expand Middle-earth.
Much of that possibility rests with the estate but just Appendix A in “The Lord of the Rings” offers a wealth of content. The imagination soars with possibilities.
This will no doubt anger many fans and delight many others, as the Amazon deal already has. Some don’t want to see the compromise of the author’s vision. Funny enough, this also seems to have a whole new batch of fans upset because they don’t want Amazon’s product to compromise Peter Jackson’s vision of Tolkien’s vision.
The officers of the Tolkien Estate still count among their numbers Tolkien’s youngest child Priscilla Tolkien and other grandchildren in the family.
This is over-long already but a final word on Christopher Tolkien’s departure. Here is a man who is a treasure, and who carries in his heart and mind the voice and essence of his father. The significance of his departure cannot be over stated.
I close with another poignant passage he wrote about his father in the preface of his final contribution to the Tolkien legacy, “Beren and Luthien.”
“In a letter to me on the subject of my mother, written in the year after her death, which was also the year before his own, he wrote of his overwhelming sense of bereavement, and of his wish to have Luthien inscribed beneath her name on the grave. He returned in that letter … to the origin of the tale of Beren and Luthien in a small woodland glade filled with hemlock flowers near Roos in Yorkshire, where she danced; and he said: ‘But the story has gone crooked, and I am left, and I cannot plead before the inexorable Mandos.’
Thank you Christopher Tolkien. We are going to miss you and your strength and determination to contribute to and preserve the legacy of your father.
Last edited:
I've been thinking about the Middle-Earth TV show (calling it a Lord of the Rings TV show seems to be rather incorrect, if you ask me), and the more I consider it, the more excited I am for the concept. JRR Tolkien died in 1973, which means that his works will enter the public domain in the United Kingdom in just over twenty-five years. This means that we are at a critical point in the popular culture of this world.
My approach to fantasy storytelling, mind you, has always been rather different. I find the concept of fantasy purism to be difficult and dangerous to navigate; good stories should be allowed to change over time, so long as the original form remains intact. Nothing Peter Jackson did to The Lord of the Rings nor The Hobbit smeared or destroyed the original books. He added to them and changed them, while maintaining (most) of the intent of the novels. He told the same stories again in a new form, staying reasonably faithful to the original work. None of this is terribly controversial, although fans will quibble over whether or not Jackson's take was close enough to the books, too far from the books, changed the interpretation of one character, where was the Scouring of the Shire you Kiwi fuck, etc. Adaptations are safe, but in the end, are they interesting? Sure, to an extent.
But JRR Tolkien didn't just leave us The Lord of the Rings. He left us with the first fully-realized, vibrant, living fantasy world, a series of tentpoles upon which it exists, and, via stories, The Silmarillion, and even the things he told his children. We know there are more stories to be told in Middle-Earth. Tolkien died long ago, however, and his ability to tell those stories died with him. His son made a valiant effort to transform his father's work into coherent tales, mostly successfully, but Christopher is 93 and has left the Tolkien Estate; the well has dried. Should we, then, leave the fantasy alone? Should it be preserved as a plinth to Tolkien's work, untouched?
I didn't get introduced to fantasy by Tolkien. My introduction to fantasy happened in a much different way, save for occasional brushes with casual fantasy stories and, of course, Star Wars, my proper introduction to fantasy occurred in the basement of one of the senior scouts in my troop when we played my first game of Dungeons & Dragons, set in the Forgotten Realms world. Forgotten Realms was written, originally, by an author named Ed Greenwood who lives in Toronto. Ed crafted the beginning of a lush fantasy world that has supported hundreds of published works. Ed sold his work to TSR and he still runs his own D&D game set in his original setting in the same library where he works. My introduction to fantasy was in this amazing world in which so many people had already collaborated; the stories that were told there varied, indeed, in quality, but they were all interesting. There's a downside, and I'll get to it in a minute.
Now, I tell my own fantasy stories every Sunday night. I no longer play in Forgotten Realms, although I still wistfully remember my first forays there. I still play in a collaborative world, this time it's Golarion, the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, designed primarily by James Jacobs. Great swaths of this world, however, are not written by James, and like Ed's world, it's starting to support multiple fiction product lines. Multiple stories told by multiple people. The quality of the world is stupendous, filled with all the little background facts, carefully checked against the central knowledge by a curator of no small skill. It's a world primed for people to set their own adventures in, and I place mine there, and those of my friends. It's damn fun.
Which brings me back to how I feel about Middle-Earth. It's the granddaddy of fantasy worlds. If we don't do anything with it right now, in twenty-five years it will enter the public domain and it will be the plaything of any idiot, any grand fool, to create nonsense within. Any moron can use Gandalf in their film or dime-novel, like today how Sherlock Holmes can show up in any piece of fiction mildly related to Victorian England. If we let this twenty-five year period expire without adding good, well-curated fantasy to the mix, we're losing the opportunity to curate this world. To provide stories that will work well with the modern pop cultural zeitgeist.
Forgotten Realms was written in the 1970s and new material is still being published today. TSR as an entity went out of business in 1998; Wizards of the Coast purchased it in 2000 and Forgotten Realms followed it. Massive changes ensued as new fantasy authors were brought onboard. Then they decided to change it again in 2008, and again in 2015. The world is...well, it's really, really weird now, and it breaks a lot of the verisimilitude I loved about it when I first started learning the lore. The collaborative storytelling had turned into a contest, where new editors wiped out grand swaths of stuff they didn't like before. It was almost a free-for-all. With Golarion, James Jacob checks everything against the world's core values, and even though it's had a really large writing cast, it all feels authentic.
Fantasy worlds shouldn't belong to one person. They should belong to all of us, and we should allow people to create within them. For Tolkien, his world alone is a huge gift; it's a place that can tell stories and can facilitate the fiction of others. We have an opportunity to allow this fiction to be carefully curated now to add to the legacy before it hits public domain. If this series is crafted with people who love the world but who aren't afraid of the nonsense belief that they can harm its legacy, then it can be great. If it is done willy-nilly, it will be atrocious. The problem is that atrocious is coming.
My approach to fantasy storytelling, mind you, has always been rather different. I find the concept of fantasy purism to be difficult and dangerous to navigate; good stories should be allowed to change over time, so long as the original form remains intact. Nothing Peter Jackson did to The Lord of the Rings nor The Hobbit smeared or destroyed the original books. He added to them and changed them, while maintaining (most) of the intent of the novels. He told the same stories again in a new form, staying reasonably faithful to the original work. None of this is terribly controversial, although fans will quibble over whether or not Jackson's take was close enough to the books, too far from the books, changed the interpretation of one character, where was the Scouring of the Shire you Kiwi fuck, etc. Adaptations are safe, but in the end, are they interesting? Sure, to an extent.
But JRR Tolkien didn't just leave us The Lord of the Rings. He left us with the first fully-realized, vibrant, living fantasy world, a series of tentpoles upon which it exists, and, via stories, The Silmarillion, and even the things he told his children. We know there are more stories to be told in Middle-Earth. Tolkien died long ago, however, and his ability to tell those stories died with him. His son made a valiant effort to transform his father's work into coherent tales, mostly successfully, but Christopher is 93 and has left the Tolkien Estate; the well has dried. Should we, then, leave the fantasy alone? Should it be preserved as a plinth to Tolkien's work, untouched?
I didn't get introduced to fantasy by Tolkien. My introduction to fantasy happened in a much different way, save for occasional brushes with casual fantasy stories and, of course, Star Wars, my proper introduction to fantasy occurred in the basement of one of the senior scouts in my troop when we played my first game of Dungeons & Dragons, set in the Forgotten Realms world. Forgotten Realms was written, originally, by an author named Ed Greenwood who lives in Toronto. Ed crafted the beginning of a lush fantasy world that has supported hundreds of published works. Ed sold his work to TSR and he still runs his own D&D game set in his original setting in the same library where he works. My introduction to fantasy was in this amazing world in which so many people had already collaborated; the stories that were told there varied, indeed, in quality, but they were all interesting. There's a downside, and I'll get to it in a minute.
Now, I tell my own fantasy stories every Sunday night. I no longer play in Forgotten Realms, although I still wistfully remember my first forays there. I still play in a collaborative world, this time it's Golarion, the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, designed primarily by James Jacobs. Great swaths of this world, however, are not written by James, and like Ed's world, it's starting to support multiple fiction product lines. Multiple stories told by multiple people. The quality of the world is stupendous, filled with all the little background facts, carefully checked against the central knowledge by a curator of no small skill. It's a world primed for people to set their own adventures in, and I place mine there, and those of my friends. It's damn fun.
Which brings me back to how I feel about Middle-Earth. It's the granddaddy of fantasy worlds. If we don't do anything with it right now, in twenty-five years it will enter the public domain and it will be the plaything of any idiot, any grand fool, to create nonsense within. Any moron can use Gandalf in their film or dime-novel, like today how Sherlock Holmes can show up in any piece of fiction mildly related to Victorian England. If we let this twenty-five year period expire without adding good, well-curated fantasy to the mix, we're losing the opportunity to curate this world. To provide stories that will work well with the modern pop cultural zeitgeist.
Forgotten Realms was written in the 1970s and new material is still being published today. TSR as an entity went out of business in 1998; Wizards of the Coast purchased it in 2000 and Forgotten Realms followed it. Massive changes ensued as new fantasy authors were brought onboard. Then they decided to change it again in 2008, and again in 2015. The world is...well, it's really, really weird now, and it breaks a lot of the verisimilitude I loved about it when I first started learning the lore. The collaborative storytelling had turned into a contest, where new editors wiped out grand swaths of stuff they didn't like before. It was almost a free-for-all. With Golarion, James Jacob checks everything against the world's core values, and even though it's had a really large writing cast, it all feels authentic.
Fantasy worlds shouldn't belong to one person. They should belong to all of us, and we should allow people to create within them. For Tolkien, his world alone is a huge gift; it's a place that can tell stories and can facilitate the fiction of others. We have an opportunity to allow this fiction to be carefully curated now to add to the legacy before it hits public domain. If this series is crafted with people who love the world but who aren't afraid of the nonsense belief that they can harm its legacy, then it can be great. If it is done willy-nilly, it will be atrocious. The problem is that atrocious is coming.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
It has already been carefully curated; respectively, undiluted, by someone who understands it intimately. That custodian is called the Literary Executor.
The problem is that this custodian's legal right to explore the given information will expire very soon; if more respectful exploration isn't allowed now, there will be a deluge of people rushing to exploit the end of copyright in ways that might be given more attention than deserved.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
And what's your point?
Last edited:
My point is that if people sit on their thumbs for 25 years and fail to create, there is a much greater chance that the rush of shit will be accepted.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Luckily, I won't live to see the rush on unlicensed Game of Thrones crap.
How does the public domain thing work?
In general, after an author/creator of an intellectual property is dead for a certain period of time (in the US and UK, 70 years currently, although some expect that to increase), the work no longer belongs to anyone. A great example of that is Sherlock Holmes. Nobody owns Sherlock Holmes right now. Any asshole can make a Sherlock Holmes novel, tv show, movie, video game, etc.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
I literally have no idea what point you're trying to make.
Not sure where you stand on Tolkien adaptations.
CT didn't "transform" Tolkien's work, he just published it. And to answer your question (aside from the plinth crap), why not leave it untouched?
It's already been the plaything of scriptwriters.
There is no compelling argument that any of that nonsense is necessary.
Do you support copyright protection or not? Middle-earth does belong to Tolkien (& heirs). It does not (currently) "belong to all of us". You seem to have a slightly ambivalent attitude towards this...
Doesn't this world belong to us all?
Incidentally, the copyright protection of 70 years doesn't exist in all countries/territories. For some it's 50 years; so 2023 for Tolkien work published in his lifetime. And none of this applies to posthumous works, unless of course recent events have involved the sale of those.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
As LC said. E.g. H. P. Lovecraft died in 1937. Copyright expired 31st December 2007; books using his texts started appearing in 2008 without the need for copyright permissions.
I want more of them, but I want them performed carefully. I want to see new creations cultivated within the existing frameworks for the purpose of creating a legitimate successor beyond the Tolkien Estate, because the Tolkien Estate is going to lose its ability to curate. New works will add to the ability to curate.
That's nonsense. CT may have been the most legitimate successor to JRRT, but he absolutely transformed the work, editing it without the ability of the original author to input. I believe he also ensured logical story flow, which almost assuredly means he wrote some passages. This isn't a bad thing, because he was clearly the best person capable of handling the JRRT legacy and giving us the closest-possible relationship to the original author's intent. But to assume he didn't transform it? Foolhardy.
Because it won't be. There's no possible outcome in which people leave Tolkien's work alone as some sort of monolith that cannot be touched.
A warning for what might come. You thought sandworms at the Battle of Five Armies was bad, or elves at Helm's Deep?
My argument isn't about supporting copyright protection or not. It's about the inevitability of what occurs when copyright protection ends; when you lose the ability to curate responsibly in an incredibly fertile fantasy world. It's about the hundreds of novels and movies and tv shows that are going to get published once copyright protection ends, and the inability of the Tolkien Estate to stop that type of trash from flooding the market. It's about the kid who is going to buy "Middle-Earth: A Book About Hibbits" and read about the adventures of Balbo Biggins and the Necklace of Strength, and never think about seeking out the original because the first one was absolute garbage.
If they work carefully over the next period of time, we could see a collection of carefully crafted pieces of art emerge that set a guideline for how to create responsibly in the Middle-Earth world if your name isn't "Tolkien". A new generation of authors and producers and directors who respect the core work and add to it in interesting and creative manners, rather than by tossing out whatever junk is needed. That way, when copyright ends on Middle-Earth, there are established names in Tolkien who can say, "Yes, sure, you have created A Book About Hibbits, but it's trash, and here is the real legacy of Tolkien, not your fifty-cent novel." It's about creating a constant creative presence that ensures that popular culture's fantasy focus lingers on the appropriate legacy, rather than vanishing and allowing it to be watered down.
I mean, I know that people will always refer back to the core works of the world, but if it's left to just do...whatever..people don't listen to academics. People listen to what's popular. And unless we're careful, it's only a matter of time before there's a news report that goes something like,"Did you ever watch The Lord of the Rings as a kid? Well, it's back now, in the form of popular X-rated novel The Lord of 50 Shades of Grey", a surprise success that explores the dark sexual fantasies of everyone's favourite Tolkien characters. You thought you'd forgotten about Elrond, but wait until you see what he's like between the sheets!" And of course, every literature professor in the world will be seeing red, but it'll sell 50 million copies because the generation on the receiving end won't actually know the difference.
In the UK, it's 2023; in the USA, it's 2043 due to the Disney expansion.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
It's not 2023 in the UK, it's 70 years here too.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Yey, Bruce likes The Lord of the Rings a lot (interview 2004):
https://www.revolvermag.com/culture...uce-dickinson-tolkien-tigers-fencing-and-more
FAVORITE BOOKS HE NEVER WROTE A SONG ABOUT: The Lord of the Rings trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkein
"We just thought it's such a huge book that it would be silly to write a song about it. It's almost as daft as imagining you could make a movie out of it. Though, of course, someone did that rather well."
https://www.revolvermag.com/culture...uce-dickinson-tolkien-tigers-fencing-and-more
FAVORITE BOOKS HE NEVER WROTE A SONG ABOUT: The Lord of the Rings trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkein
"We just thought it's such a huge book that it would be silly to write a song about it. It's almost as daft as imagining you could make a movie out of it. Though, of course, someone did that rather well."