The Israel-Palestine Conflict

Azas said:
Next logical step for Ireland, Norway and Spain is to open Palestine Embassies in their capitals.
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Host countries do not open embassies. That is the job of the country in question. Many countries that are recognized by Ireland, Norway, and Spain do not have embassies in those countries. Ireland, for example, recognizes 190+ countries but only has 67 embassies in Dublin. So no, it's not the next step.

Azas said:
And those Embassies will be run by hamas, because now there's no other government.
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This is also untrue. The PLO runs the West Bank, and is far more likely to be the governmental-type agency that does business with any western governments for that region.

Azas said:
Three European countries want to deal with hamas.
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You've leapt to a massive conclusion that isn't supported by evidence. Recognizing the existence of the Palestinian state doesn't mean you like or even support their government. The USA recognizes the existence of Russia.

Azas said:
With terrorists and rapists and murderers.
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Well, Ireland and terrorists? Not exactly unheard of. As for rape and murder, all states commit murder, all armies commit rape. That's not to say that Hamas's violence on Oct 7 is acceptable, but it is fair to say that the violence committed by Israel in response is beyond acceptable proportions. Killing 35,000 to avenge 1200 is beyond the pale for most people.

Azas said:
* I have no slightest idea who run respective countries. Their action speak volumes to me.
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The fact that you are basing "leftists" on your idea of what should happen rather than the actual stated policies and sling it seemingly as an insult speaks volumes as well.
 
Azas said:
So... Next logical step for Ireland, Norway and Spain is to open Palestine Embassies in their capitals. And those Embassies will be run by hamas, because now there's no other government. Three European countries want to deal with hamas. With terrorists and rapists and murderers. Three Europe's governments have send signal that by beheading and burning innocent civilians you may achieve your goals! Idiots!

the timing of this action is god awful. Leftists* siding with terrorists.

( I despise Netanyahu. But I stand with Israel which wages it's war for survival. hamas is Irans tool. Europe wants to have a la iran/taliban country next to Israel?)

* I have no slightest idea who run respective countries. Their action speak volumes to me.
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This is arguably the most uninformed post I've ever seen on this board, and that includes those by the guy who claimed we're controlled by Alpha Draconians.
 
This post was not intended to be without flaws and errors. I admitted myself that I do not know political situation in those three countries. Also I was not afraid to become easy target because of what I said in my post. First and foremost I wanted to convey my emotions regarding that decision. Citizens of respective countries will deal with consequences.
I consider myself a citizen of mostly centrist views. I hate far right and I hate far left.
My English is not good enough to delve in deep analysis (not that I am great analyst :)) Too time consuming and tiring.
Nonetheless, I said what I said. Imo, it's a bad decision. Wrong timing etc. Hamas, as a terrorist organization must me destroyed. After that you can consider two state solution. Yes, I do not know how to prevent civilians from dying, it's war after all. But return to status quo with hamas still in picture will not solve the problem.
 
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Interesting screenshots. Last year Biden administration applauded ICC to issue warrant against Putin, now that it's about Netanyahu, it threatens sanctions!
In addition Khan of ICC was on record in Amanpour's CNN show that a senior leader angrily told him that "ICC is built for Africa and thugs like Putin"
Interesting to watch all interview. I also add Sanders view about ICC then and now, which unlike Biden Administration's, is consistent.

ICC a year later.png Sanctions to ICC.png


 
____no5 said:
Last year Biden administration applauded ICC to issue warrant against Putin, now that it's about Netanyahu, it threatens sanctions!
In addition Khan of ICC was on record in Amanpour's CNN show that a senior leader angrily told him that "ICC is built for Africa and thugs like Putin"
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Yep, the hypocrisy from the U.S. on this is appalling, but sadly not unexpected. If we’re not going to recognize the authority of the ICC, then we should be consistent about that across the board and not use them as a convenient political prop when they happen to do things we like to other people.
 
ICC's Khan is clearly frightened by the bullying he received. But it's not only ICC. Everything seems unfair and double standard. Take Olympic Games. Belarusian athletes would not be allowed to participate with their country's flag but Israeli athletes will. Go figure.
The list is long, the World is taking notes and the West is getting discredited by those actions.
 
GhostofCain said:
Palestine should have been recognised decades ago. It is a fundamental part of trying to solve the conflict.
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I agree with that, but Palestine's recognition should be carried in a different manner. Now it looks like this. Hamas: We murdered/burned/raped/taken hostages of Israel citizens. Israel begins justified act of war to punish terrorists. Some European countries: we recognise Palestine. I see horrendous logical connection here. I understand that civilians are dying but who's using them as a shield? Yes, hamas. You cannot create a new country with old evil lurking in it. That's how I see it.
 
Azas said:
I agree with that, but Palestine's recognition should be carried in a different manner. Now it looks like this. Hamas: We murdered/burned/raped/taken hostages of Israel citizens. Israel begins justified act of war to punish terrorists. Some European countries: we recognise Palestine. I see horrendous logical connection here. I understand that civilians are dying but who's using them as a shield? Yes, hamas. You cannot create a new country with old evil lurking in it. That's how I see it.
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It looks like that to you, not to many of us here.

I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree.
 
I think @Azas has a point about context and optics here. Something as big as recognizing Palestine should be happening in response to a large concession from Hamas, rather than pity for the side effects of Hamas’s own horrendous actions. Though @GhostofCain is also right that this should have already happened long ago, likely as part of a peace agreement that was ultimately rejected by Arafat.
 
I also wanted to write about Arafat but that's too much words for me (to delve into topic)
 
Jer said:
Though @GhostofCain is also right that this should have already happened long ago, likely as part of a peace agreement that was ultimately rejected by Arafat.
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Very one sided view, exactly what Hilary Clinton would say. Actually I saw her somewhere blaming Palestinians that didn't take the deal then.
 
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