The Economic Crisis In Europe

Re: Greece, now.

I believe I've been told about this movie. You have seen it Zare?? What's your opinion ?? You would suggest it to me ??

It's a conspiracy theory thing, but it's backed up with some hard facts. It's not a "fun" watch because it shows in what kind of shit situation today's society is. Sadly, most of the movie is true.

The final third of the movie is dedicated to something called Venus project. Well, it's a nice hypothetical scenario for a balanced, self-sustained civilization without any kind of currency. When you listen to it, you'll nod your head in approval, "this thing could really work". However, then you realize that human kind features a large number of scum that doesn't want to help a fellow man...and this thing remains just a theory.

Something alike theoretical communism. It's ultimate society, but it can't work because of pure human nature.

...the film suggests that society is manipulated into economic slavery through debt-based monetary policies by requiring individuals to submit for employment in order to pay off their debt.

Bullshit. Not on you mate, but on Wikipedia author. It's off context...what that means is that people need loans to afford basic life requirements (housing), and then they need to work any kind of job, no matter the salary or anything, because that loan is almost larger than their life. And that induces apathy, something crucial for liberal capitalism and psychology behind it. I have a shitty job, i'm treated like garbage and i'd just spit my boss in the face, but i can't do it because i need to pay off the goddamn loan. (well not me but you get the point).
 
Re: Greece, now.

Zare said:
what that means is that people need loans to afford basic life requirements (housing), and then they need to work any kind of job, no matter the salary or anything, because that loan is almost larger than their life.

...Live on rent? ;)

I have a shitty job, i'm treated like garbage and i'd just spit my boss in the face, but i can't do it because i need to pay off the goddamn loan. (well not me but you get the point).

Is this you exaggerating or is the film like this?
 
Re: Greece, now.

Zare said:
It's a conspiracy theory thing, but it's backed up with some hard facts. It's not a "fun" watch because it shows in what kind of shit situation today's society is. Sadly, most of the movie is true.

The final third of the movie is dedicated to something called Venus project. Well, it's a nice hypothetical scenario for a balanced, self-sustained civilization without any kind of currency. When you listen to it, you'll nod your head in approval, "this thing could really work". However, then you realize that human kind features a large number of scum that doesn't want to help a fellow man...and this thing remains just a theory.

I believe this is the film I've been told. Thanks mate  :ok:
 
Re: Greece, now.

No, it's a valid point. Most people in the developed world purchase land through renting. However, this is not a bad thing - it's an extremely good thing. Personal credit is one of the reasons we are able to utilize huge masses of wealth over a period of time. We invest based on our futures. That's what a mortgage, a student loan, etc. is. Of course, many people forget that once you finish the investment, it's yours forever.

My friend's grandfather used his saved up pay from his time as a tanker in World War II to put a downpayment on a large plot of land by the river next to which I grew up. When he retired at age 60, he had just paid it off, sure. But he sold it all for a huge increase. Yes, the banks financed people to pay for that land, in most cases. But their credit has allowed them to do so, and they'll get to resell the land later. Without credit, people would (given the current prices of land and developed property) be unable to live in their own homes, and unable to afford businesses to move forward. Extension of credit is a very, very old thing, and suggesting it is "bad" is wrong.

Credit/debt can be used as a weapon - consider how the USA settled the Suez Canal crisis - but overall, it has been very, very important to the financial development of our civilization.
 
Re: Greece, now.

I tried watching Zeitgeist once. Within two minutes, my bullshit detector was off the scales.

Zare said:
It's a conspiracy theory thing, but it's backed up with some hard facts.

Just because you're using facts doesn't mean you're using them correctly. Showing off your hammer now and then doesn't make you a carpenter.


In other forums where I've seen this movie get some attention, the only freaks who believe it are the nutjob libertarians who think 9/11 was an inside job and Ron Paul will Save The Universe. I have yet to see this movie get taken seriously by someone who's not off their rocker.
 
Re: Greece, now.

Yes indeed. Jon Schaffer probably loves Zeitgeist.

And he needs to go listen to his old albums so he can remember how to write decent songs.


Wait, what is this thread supposed to be about again?
 
Re: Greece, now.

Greece not only being the creator of Western Civilization as we know it, but also it's destructor. Ironic? Oh yes.
 
Re: Greece, now.

Onhell said:
Greece not only being the creator of Western Civilization as we know it, but also it's destructor. Ironic? Oh yes.

I couldn't help it. It just popped in there. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. The Stay-Puft Marshmellow Man.
 
Re: Greece, now.

LooseCannon said:
Well, that's one opinion - a dissenting opinion. We'll have to see what happens in the next 2-3 years. Of course, if the economy continues general recovery with Greece as an exception...

There isn't a general recovery.
 
Re: Greece, now.

Ohhh…I see. All the economists who say that the economies of the G20 nations have rebounded are…….lying? Wrong?
 
Re: Greece, now.

I saw the half of Zeitgeist yesterday... I feel disappointed  :( 
I was expecting to see some awesome conspiracy theories, but instead I saw common things, that everybody knows...since ever  :D
 
Re: Greece, now.

Will-I-Am said:
I saw the half of Zeitgeist ... I saw common things, that everybody knows...

SinisterMinisterX said:
I tried watching Zeitgeist once. Within two minutes, my bullshit detector was off the scales.

Something's wrong here...
 
Re: Greece, now.

Yes, known stuff but nicely summed. However, our fellow forumers from North America are in constant denial. According to them, rents / loans are ok, and there is no such thing as > 30 million people living below povery line on that continent.

@SMX, you watched Zeitgeist, this is the sequel. It's only about economy. No religion/terrorism stuff.
 
Re: Greece, now.

Zare said:
Yes, known stuff but nicely summed.

I would have preferred to insist more explaining the Modern Monetary Mechanics
than keep showing conspiracies that, more or less, everybody knows. Yes, nicely summed

Zare said:
However, our fellow forumers from North America are in constant denial. According to them, rents / loans are ok, and there is no such thing as > 30 million people living below povery line on that continent.

@SMX, you watched Zeitgeist, this is the sequel. It's only about economy. No religion/terrorism stuff.

It's normal. They have a completely different information than we do and a completely other way of life as well.
Also don't forget that US & Canada belong to G7 and other similar stuff.
 
Re: Greece, now.

Zare said:
rents / loans are ok,

I don't see your argument.  Is the only way for me to get housing, then, by waiting until a relative dies and inheriting that?  Or should I insist the government provides me housing for free?
 
Re: Greece, now.

Invader said:
I don't see your argument.  Is the only way for me to get housing, then, by waiting until a relative dies and inheriting that?  Or should I insist the government provides me housing for free?

When you'll watch the movie, you'll understand what Zare is talking about.
To presume, any loans given by banks are technically illegal and ethically... well vulgar at last!!
Strangely enough nobody bothers.

Just watch the 15 first minutes and you'll see what Zare means. Ah!! ...there is an answer for your future house as well  ;)
 
Re: Greece, now.

Or should I insist the government provides me housing for free?

Yes, for fuck's sake!

@no5, modern money mechanics is free in digital form on the 'net, just google it up. But i don't have nerves to read it. Each time i start reading some capitalist bullshit that has no logic or ethics in it, my blood pressure gets skyhigh and i need a joint to mellow it down  :D
 
Re: Greece, now.

Because there is enough resources to do so. For all of us.

If you like your country (every country) wasting money on killing machines and some totally idiotic things that no-one benefits from, then so be it.

I mean, my country wasted 3 million euro for Windows licensing, for central academic users directory. Which would be perfectly free if someone did same thing on FOSS. However, fucktards decided to make a state-level contracts with Microsoft few years ago.

How much square m of community housing can you make for 3 million euro?
They do that sort of stuff on everyday basis.
 
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