"The Book of Souls" - Official pre-release thread (CONTAINS ALBUM SPOILERS)

[Gk1]

BNW IMO

Poor songwriting and dull drumming for the most part (apart form the bass pedal).

Sound wise it must be the best produced post reunion album but with the drum sound too high in the mix.

And yes all the rushed work done with AMOLAD and the disturbing choruses don't put as high in the ranking as the old albums. Martin would never leave anything to luck. Even the momentary mistake with the sound in NPFTD was then rectified with FOTD.

 

[johnglen]

I can't really see what you're arguing. BNW is more polished and more produced than anything Birch even attempted to do. AMOLAD is both better played and recorded than any of their classic efforts. Listen to how the snare sits in the mix! Brilliant work by one of the most highly regarded producers working today.

Lol is this supposed to be a joke ? BNW sound is pathetic compared to the Martin birch produced albums until seventh son .

The biggest problem of post reunion iron maiden has been the production. The albums would be much better with a proper heavy metal production . The band has three guitarists and the guitar sound is paper thin !!! I think the blame is on both Kevin Shirley and Steve Harris. Kevin Shirley is a good rock producer , unlike birch who was a legendary hard rock/heavy metal producer before he took over maiden , who doesn't fit with a heavy metal band and Steve Harris has a strong opinion of how modern maiden should sound which is a real shame. He destroyed what would have been a great iron maiden album (x-factor) with his own horrible production and he is still involved with the production of recent albums . It's too bad that Dickinson accepted that cause in thei first interview after the reunion , in the classic rock magazine (better the devil you know) dickinson insisted on their next album having a huge sound and BNW had anything but that .

The fact that Shirley is behind every new iron maiden album kills a bit of the pre release hype for me .

 

[Forostar]

Gk1, what exactly do you like about Maiden?

All the stuff he did not criticize.

I can't really see what you're arguing. BNW is more polished and more produced than anything Birch even attempted to do. AMOLAD is both better played and recorded than any of their classic efforts. Listen to how the snare sits in the mix! Brilliant work by one of the most highly regarded producers working today.

I agree that the drums on Brave New World are very well produced. And the vocals. What is a good production? That differs per person. It's taste.
Heavy, full sounding guitars like on The Chemical Wedding? Alright, Brave New World doesn't have that. Weaker sounding bass guitar on The Chemical Wedding? Alright, The X-Factor has more bass.

Personally, I do not like to zoom in too much on the production aspect. It can deviate from what I find the most important: the songs themselves.
Is the song great? Excellent. Does it sound well? Even better. A bonus.

AMOLAD is both better played and recorded than any of their classic efforts.

I find Nicko's drumming on Somewhere in Time the best he ever did. Steve's bass playing on e.g. Powerslave was more exciting than anything I heard by him on the Shirley albums. And I prefer his old sound as well. I like these high end sounds he had. You really heard the snares! In the last 4 albums it had a deeper, more bassy sound, probably to match the rest of the production (guitars).

 

[Gk1]

@Forostar A great production is theone fitting the songs.In a manner that you don't need to play around with the equaliser.I never had any problem at all until TXF was released.It just did not sound right.Never had that problem with any of the Birch albums. I never thought is was necessary to play around with anything less apart from the volume in the old albums

 

[Maturin]

Lol is this supposed to be a joke ? BNW sound is pathetic compared to the Martin birch produced albums until seventh son .

The biggest problem of post reunion iron maiden has been the production. The albums would be much better with a proper heavy metal production . The band has three guitarists and the guitar sound is paper thin !!! I think the blame is on both Kevin Shirley and Steve Harris. Kevin Shirley is a good rock producer , unlike birch who was a legendary hard rock/heavy metal producer before he took over maiden , who doesn't fit with a heavy metal band and Steve Harris has a strong opinion of how modern maiden should sound which is a real shame. He destroyed what would have been a great iron maiden album (x-factor) with his own horrible production and he is still involved with the production of recent albums . It's too bad that Dickinson accepted that cause in thei first interview after the reunion , in the classic rock magazine (better the devil you know) dickinson insisted on their next album having a huge sound and BNW had anything but that .

The fact that Shirley is behind every new iron maiden album kills a bit of the pre release hype for me .

Are you suggesting a more scooped guitar sound? More saturated? Neither would fare well in mixing 3+ guitartracks together (remember that we're talking live-takes here, not multitracked stuff to a click track). The guitar sound on BNW is reference worthy for what it achieves in doing. Maiden have always been more of a 70's inspired prog rock act than 80's heavy metal. And the sound is arguably huge, I wouldn't describe it in any other way. The band has three guitarplayers and all of them are audible and clear without stepping on each other's toes (tell that to the guy who produced the latest Judas Priest album, for example...). I don't know what you listen through though. Or what you use as a reference.

The Birch-produced albums and their guitar sound appears firmly rooted in the 80's when they were recorded. Way too saturated, fizzy ugliness for this band. (Powerslave is the worst offender.) On the Shirley produced efforts the guitar-tones are actually pleasant to the ears.

I find Nicko's drumming on Somewhere in Time the best he ever did. Steve's bass playing on e.g. Powerslave was more exciting than anything I heard by him on the Shirley albums. And I prefer his old sound as well. I like these high end sounds he had. You really heard the snares! In the last 4 albums it had a deeper, more bassy sound, probably to match the rest of the production (guitars).

As a guitarplayer myself, I naturally focus on the guitars. Adrian and especially Dave clearly had trouble with bending in pitch, and in the case of the latter - to keep in time during soloing/leads up until at least Powerslave. They got better with each consequent record, and especially Adrian gives a well rounded impression on SiT - but it's not really with the same grace that they played on AMOLAD.

 

[johnglen]

Maiden have always been a heavy metal band , not a prog rock inspired one, and they should sound like it . Whatever , go to any forum , most if not all fans hate the production of the Shirley albums . To compare shirley with birch is blasphemy, IMO .

 

[Gk1]

I think Shirley did some really good sounding albums.Sadly not with Maiden.I am quite sure that Kevin suggested to record live to begin with and it seems that all of the Maiden guys hated spending time in the studio.So it was a match made in Heaven??

 

[Lego]

Which (is it though?) automatically makes it sit perfectly, with zero or almost no effort.

Yep, it's his old Ludwig 402 aluminum snare. Used on POM, Powerslave, SIT and 7th Son. He brought it out of retirement for AMOLAD and TFF.

Such a great sounding drum. I think it anchored th AMOLAD mix quite well.

 

[Mosh]

To compare shirley with birch is blasphemy, IMO .

Not blasphemy as much as it's just pointless. Both producers have very different styles and are both masters at what they do. Birch was a great fit for what they were doing in the 80s and Shirley is a great fit for what they're doing now.

Also, it seems fairly obvious that any flaws with the recent Maiden recordings can be blamed on Steve Harris, not Shirley. Just find the DoD doc and see how they came up with a master for that album.

 

[Lego]

Also, it seems fairly obvious that any flaws with the recent Maiden recordings can be blamed on Steve Harris, not Shirley. Just find the DoD doc and see how they came up with a master for that album.

THIS. Plus people tend to forget that, as the mixing engineer and producer, Caveman is NOT normally responsible for actually mastering the albums. Usually they would be sent to a mastering engineer.

 

[THESEVENTHMARINER]

Maiden have always been a heavy metal band , not a prog rock inspired one, and they should sound like it

I think you should tell that to every single member of the band.

Like it or not, Maiden have always been a progressive metal/hard rock band, inspired by a lot of prog rock bands from the 60s and 70s.

 

[Night Prowler]

Like it or not, Maiden have always been a progressive metal/hard rock band

No.

 

[mckindog]

The need to describe is understandable.
The need to label is sad.

 

[harrisdevot]

It's funny how this conversation/debate returns every three months. And the ending is always the same : Iron Maiden is a genre in itself.
By the way, Harris has said several times that the definition that better fits would be Heavy Rock. I personnaly hate the term, but if someone should know, it must be him.

 

[Mosh]

I just don't understand why it matters what genre they are. Why does it have to be a debate? If someone wants to think Maiden is blackened progressive synth-core then that's their decision. Has no effect on the actual music.

 

[Forostar]

Right now it is part of the debate on how Maiden "should" sound.

 

[Yax]

Yep, it's his old Ludwig 402 aluminum snare. Used on POM, Powerslave, SIT and 7th Son. He brought it out of retirement for AMOLAD and TFF.

Such a great sounding drum. I think it anchored th AMOLAD mix quite well.

Cool!

AMOLAD snare is definitely a bit sample reinforced though.

 

[Mosh]

Right now it is part of the debate on how Maiden "should" sound.

From a production standpoint, the style of music definitely has an effect on how it should be approached, but I would say mostly in broad terms. I.e. You wouldn't approach a metal song the same way as a hip hop song (generally). But from there I think it really depends more on the band's style, especially a band with a sound as signature a Maiden's. Whether or not Maiden is a progressive metal band doesn't really matter IMO. It's more about capturing their live sound I think.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Right now it is part of the debate on how Maiden "should" sound.

Meh. What to expect from Maiden must be deduced from Maiden's previous work, not from a genre label that probably won't fit completely anyway. I mean, why first analyze their previous work and use that to fit a label to the band, and then, based on this label, come up with expectations?

It introduces an extra step in the thought process, and this step is unnecessary.

 

[Lego]

Cool!

AMOLAD snare is definitely a bit sample reinforced though.

Oh no doubt, as it is on all the reunion albums. To my ear, it sounds as if it's been resampled from itself, so at least it's still true to the character of the drum.