Senjutsu - 3rd September 2021

Darkest Hour was my favourite song on first listen. Over time that perception has shifted, but I would still put it in the top 3 (after The Writing On The Wall and The Parchment).

I agree the lyrics are annoying though - I could've sworn it went "Here I stand"...
 
GhostofCain said:
You bet! Although I have been living in the UK for a very long time, I was born in Spain (I have dual British/Spanish citizenship) and have Basque ancestry. The whole idea of chauvinism has never appealed to me. :)
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I thought you were Galician. Most of my Spanish friends are Basques. Can you speak the most ancient native language in Europe?
 
____no5 said:
I thought you were Galician. Most of my Spanish friends are Basques. Can you speak the most ancient native language in Europe?
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One of my grandparents was from Galicia, so I can also claim to have some Celtic ancestry. :lol:

Sadly I cannot speak Basque (I know a few words that I use whenever I go to the Basque country so the locals can see that at least I try!). I’d love to learn the language though.
 
harrisdevot said:
I hate it. Unmelodic. Just try to whistle the vocal melody. I don't know how such a thing has landed on this fantastic album. I guess Harris penning four songs wanted to let room to the others, even knowing some of their contributions were not good. For me, it's the worst Maiden song ever, and the lyrics are dull. When acknowledging Churchill was not perfect, Bruce cited his depression and alcoolism, forgeting his obsessive racism and his taste for eradication. A man who has ordered the firestorm of Hamburg in 1943, expecting it would kill as many civilians as possible, cannot be praised.
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I can whistle the vocal melody. In fact I'd rather whistle than sing those lyrics! :lol:

I agree with you that Churchill was a massive piece of shit, notwithstanding his role in winning World War Two.
 
GhostofCain said:
I can whistle the vocal melody. In fact I'd rather whistle than sing those lyrics! :lol:

I agree with you that Churchill was a massive piece of shit, notwithstanding his role in winning World War Two.
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That piece of shit recommended several medals and honors to another piece of shit "bomber" Harris for destroy Dresden and other several German cities killing all the civilians who lived there. :turd:
Lyrics by Dickinson praising Churchill who awarded "Bomber" Harris nickname of Steve Harris in the early days. Ironic :facepalm:
 
The_7th_one said:
That piece of shit recommended several medals and honors to another piece of shit "bomber" Harris for destroy Dresden and other several German cities killing all the civilians who lived there. :turd:
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Don't forget the Bengal Famine. Or Gallipoli. Or Ireland. Or the tanks in George Square. Or...

Point being that yeah, he was a scumbag. Unfortunately he was also the right scumbag at the right time which is why history ignores all the bad shit he did.

There's a reason why the returning soldiers voted him out in 1945. They didn't like him either.
 
I never got the feeling that Dickinson was praising Churchill in Darkest Hour. Rather, he’s praising how a flawed and shitty man helped save his people from an even shittier man. He’s also kinda said this in interviews regarding the song, though I’m paraphrasing.

It’d be like in 10 years if Metallica wrote a song about how Trump saved the US during some crisis. (He didn’t, but follow my logic).
 
chaosapiant said:
I never got the feeling that Dickinson was praising Churchill in Darkest Hour.
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Maiden wrote a song about The Beast, a song about Icarus, a song about a Prowler, a song about a prostitute, a song(s) about war...

I don't think writing a song about a person, entity or subject means that the band is praising or endorsing that person, entity or subject.
Maiden do lots of storytelling. I can't remember them making ethical claims in their songs
 
chaosapiant said:
I never got the feeling that Dickinson was praising Churchill in Darkest Hour.
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Big time man.

Spaldy said:
Here I stand
In a serenade of glory...

Yeah he was.
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+1

Also:

I faced them down the only one
I stood alone and warned the day would come
But they were wrong, appeasers every one
And not for the last time we all stand alone

I watch the sun move away
As I embrace the night
And my black dog has its day
For six long yеars, you shall not pass
Barbarians at the gates
We will ovеrcome

..
You sons of Albion awake
Defend this sacred land

Pretty positive outlook.
 
frus said:
So then,

I have the fire, I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take its course

Is praising Satan, right?
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Nobody would ever admit that but the words & images have a power within them, no matter the context.
For sure not something you'd sing in your language to your infant child to sleep. I know I wouldn't.

Lord of Light & The Parchment below, Lord of Light is the lucifer:
/
Infernal sacrifice of Hell
Fire breathing, lead the way
Mounds of bodies, as they all burn into one

Free your soul and let it fly
Give your life to the Lord of Light

We are the shadows of the one unholy ghost
In our nightmare world, the only one we trust
...
Lord of light in the darkness, our guide
Sell your soul not give them power
/

In any case, Darkest Hour is pretty much more clear and evident as pro Churchill than are the above mentioned, pro S.
 
____no5 said:
Big time man.


+1

Also:

I faced them down the only one
I stood alone and warned the day would come
But they were wrong, appeasers every one
And not for the last time we all stand alone

I watch the sun move away
As I embrace the night
And my black dog has its day
For six long yеars, you shall not pass
Barbarians at the gates
We will ovеrcome

..
You sons of Albion awake
Defend this sacred land

Pretty positive outlook.
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I'd say Bruce was probably even drooling when writing the lyrics.
 
Yeah, I hate to say it but that's not exactly what you'd call a depiction of a flawed man doing what he must, that's just glorifying his legacy without much in the way of a critical eye.

"People say I 'idolize' Churchill. Not true, I hold a fair and balanced view." -B. Dickinson, 2019, probably.
 
It doesn't take away my enjoyment from listening to this great track.

frus said:
So then,

I have the fire, I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take its course

Is praising Satan, right?
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I see where you're going, but the TNOTB "story" actually has the bad guy "uttering" those lyrics at the end.
In Darkest Hour, Churchill is the story.

For me "turn the ploughshares into swords" sounds like something you'd do in a strategy game. Like sliding a population slider between peasants and army for the next turn's production. And it's exactly what Churchill was doing for his entire life, it just wasn't a game and those people weren't pixels.

It's this Dickinson's gallant and poetic description of him that people have a problem with. And a context where he puts him as saviour of Europe/freedom at an expense of his own people. Which is certainly not true. Here's why

www.theguardian.com

Churchill's policies contributed to 1943 Bengal famine – study

Study is first time weather data has been used argue wartime policies exacerbated famine
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Very wise guy indeed. Putting Turing through hormonal therapy was very wise too. Let's kill a man because he's different, while not noticing his massive contribution to the war effort. But no, old idiot staring out of the window pondering about sending 15 or 23 thousand men into certain death tommorow morning; the pros and cons of both. Very honorable and wise position indeed.
 
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