Religion test thing

Yes, there would be.

Evolutionary fanatics. You know, the people who sneer at everyone who quietly wears a cross and is rather sensible about their religion.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Jun 6 2005, 09:27 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Jun 6 2005, 09:27 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Christianity has no adverse effect on anybody. FUNDAMENTALISTS and FANATICS do. please don't confuse the actions of people with what a philosophy/religion really says.
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Onhell, if we keep agreeing on things, these forums will collapse into a black hole. Yin and Yang must not agree...
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 7 2005, 07:41 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 7 2005, 07:41 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Yes, there would be.

Evolutionary fanatics.  You know, the people who sneer at everyone who quietly wears a cross and is rather sensible about their religion.
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I said there wouldn't be any fanatical Christian fundies, something I could certainly live with. It's not Wiccans or Buddhists trying to pass intelligent design science standards for schools or anti-abortion/anti-contraceptive laws, etc. I also don't recall hearing 'under the great Earth Mother' in the Pledge of Allegiance or hearing about some Alabama state court judges trying to erect monuments to the nine Satanic statements or their beliefs about nirvana or reincarnation...Well, you see where I'm going with this.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-StrangerInAStrangeLand+Jun 7 2005, 08:42 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(StrangerInAStrangeLand @ Jun 7 2005, 08:42 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I said there wouldn't be any fanatical Christian fundies, something I could certainly live with. It's not Wiccans or Buddhists trying to pass intelligent design science standards for schools or anti-abortion/anti-contraceptive laws, etc. I also don't recall hearing 'under the great Earth Mother' in the Pledge of Allegiance or hearing about some Alabama state court judges trying to erect monuments to the nine Satanic statements or their beliefs about nirvana or reincarnation...Well, you see where I'm going with this.
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correction you just said fanatic fundies, not "fanatical christian fundies". check your post. Also, if you lived in China or Japan it would be Buddhism doing that not Christianity. You live in a country where most people ascribe to some form of Christianity. In Japan they were so adverse to it they persecuted them and expelled the religion for 200 years (1600's-1800's) However Shinto, the native religion of Japan became just as opressive, fanatical and controling during those years as Christianity is in the USA. So again it is not Christianity OR Shinto or budhism or confucianism (thanks to confucianism, women in Japan went from being worshipped to being practically house-slaves)... it is PEOPLE.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Jun 7 2005, 04:26 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Jun 7 2005, 04:26 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Onhell, if we keep agreeing on things, these forums will collapse into a black hole. Yin and Yang must not agree...
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Remember that there is a little bit of yang in the yin and vice versa [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Jun 7 2005, 03:53 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Jun 7 2005, 03:53 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]correction you just said fanatic fundies, not "fanatical christian fundies". check your post.
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I guess I did, but I meant Xian fundies.
[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Jun 7 2005, 03:53 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Jun 7 2005, 03:53 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Also, if you lived in China or Japan it would be Buddhism doing that not Christianity. You live in a country where most people ascribe to some form of Christianity. In Japan they were so adverse to it they persecuted them and expelled the religion for 200 years (1600's-1800's) However Shinto, the native religion of Japan became just as opressive, fanatical and controling during those years as Christianity is in the USA.
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...which is why if I lived in China I would be more against Buddhism. It is the U.S.'s fault that they chose to instill this Xian crap into the country instead of Buddhist crap or whatever.
[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Jun 7 2005, 03:53 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Jun 7 2005, 03:53 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]So again it is not Christianity OR Shinto or budhism or confucianism (thanks to confucianism, women in Japan went from being worshipped to being practically house-slaves)... it is PEOPLE.
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Christianity preaches to these people to think/do all this crap. It's the fault of the people/country for choosing to follow the religion.
 
It's not the US's fault they installed Christians. The US was started by Christians, remember. The Puritans, the Quakers, Presbyterians, English Catholics...yeah, the list goes on.

The Thirteen Colonies recieved primarily Christians from England, those who weren't Anglican. (And lots of them too, don't forget). The idea of a Muslim or a Hindu moving to America was laudible at that point.

And trust me...don't you think those people who steadfastly refuse to admit the possibility of intelligent design are just as fanatical as those who adhere to it without thought?
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 7 2005, 03:37 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 7 2005, 03:37 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]And trust me...don't you think those people who steadfastly refuse to admit the possibility of intelligent design are just as fanatical as those who adhere to it without thought?
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No scientist I know would say that intelligent design is impossible - only that it's completely untestable, and therefore not suitable for a science class. It's one of the first things they teach you in any freshman-level science course in college: a hypothesis has to be testable, or else it's completely invalid. Teaching intelligent design in a science class makes as much sense as teaching the structure of DNA in a philosophy class.
 
And I agree with that assessment. But there are those who consider creationists to be idiotic and infantile. I'm just trying to look at both sides of the coin here - both religion and science seems to create fanatical adherents.
 
exactly, it is nobody's "fault" things are taught or "instilled". Look how many americans on this board ARE NOT religious/patriotic fanatics, mindless morons (if there are they are weeded out accordingly) etc. Even though society does shape and mold people and uses most as chess pieces it is possible to have a mind of your own and CHOOSE what you listen to, who to believe etc.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 7 2005, 04:37 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 7 2005, 04:37 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]And trust me...don't you think those people who steadfastly refuse to admit the possibility of intelligent design are just as fanatical as those who adhere to it without thought?
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Not really. This is how I see it:

Someone picks up a rock and says that there's an invisible magical dwarf land inside it that you can get to when you die. Then they begin to make up some fairy tales about the dwarves and that the dwarves hate fags, etc. They also start worshipping the magical dwarves inside it. Telling everyone that the dwarf land doesn't exist, that the fairy tales are stupid, and all that other stuff doesn't make you a fanatic.
 
Your analogy is improper. You assume that evolution is scientific fact. It's not - it's a theory. The assumption that evolution is fact, without verifiable proof, is what I would consider a bit...fundamentalist.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 7 2005, 10:53 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 7 2005, 10:53 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Your analogy is improper.  You assume that evolution is scientific fact.  It's not - it's a theory.  The assumption that evolution is fact, without verifiable proof, is what I would consider a bit...fundamentalist.
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I know it's "just" a theory but religion is lightyears more ridiculous so I choose to believe in evolution. Evolution has a sufficient amount of science behind it. It wasn't just made up by some people...like the magical land in the rock.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 8 2005, 05:53 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 8 2005, 05:53 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Your analogy is improper.  You assume that evolution is scientific fact.  It's not - it's a theory.  The assumption that evolution is fact, without verifiable proof, is what I would consider a bit...fundamentalist.
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Sorry, but I need to correct you here. Evolution is much more than a theory.

At the molecular level, you can make phylogenetic trees linking all forms of lives and how they evolved from each other. I dont wan't to start on molecular biology here, but it seems to me that if you can do this, it more than proves your theory. It's a bit like statistically linking the fact of smoking and the development of certain cancers -- the biological mechanism is not yet known, but the statistics are there to establish the link.

I consider therefore evolution as a proven fact, whereas creationism lies in the land of legends and fairy tales. Evolution is not something you believe in, but something you realise is more than plausible, as there are facts to support it. What are the facts supporting creationism? [!--emo&:huh:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/huh.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'huh.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
The Bible [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
I once read a book by a creationist author that listed a bunch of reasons why the earth can't be more than 6,000 years old. Although I was able to plunk holes into about a third of the reasons, and I imagine someone with more knowledge than the 15 year old kid I was at the time could have done more.

Also that consider that intelligent design would likely have followed similar patterns. "I'll make a dog, and something like a dog called a wolf, so I'll just take the dog and pimp him out a bit."

Not that it really compares to evolution, mind you, but I am simply saying.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 8 2005, 04:02 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 8 2005, 04:02 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Also that consider that intelligent design would likely have followed similar patterns.  "I'll make a dog, and something like a dog called a wolf, so I'll just take the dog and pimp him out a bit."
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I'm not sure I understood what you meant here... be careful not to confuse evolution and selection... [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-StrangerInAStrangeLand+Jun 8 2005, 04:09 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(StrangerInAStrangeLand @ Jun 8 2005, 04:09 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I know it's "just" a theory but religion is lightyears more ridiculous so I choose to believe in evolution. Evolution has a sufficient amount of science behind it. It wasn't just made up by some people...like the magical land in the rock.
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Science and Religion ARE NOT mutually exclusive. As stated by maverik, you don't believe in evolution, you don't need faith, grace and revelation to understand evolution. There are plenty of religious people (of many faiths) that have no problems saying we evolved from a more primitive life form.

Also, Theories are not "just" anything. First you get an idea, then you make a hypothesis, you test your hypothesis, if it fails you modify it, if it tests positive you test it again, you test it against other ideas, if it fails you modify it, if it test positve, you test it again, then it becomes a theory, you test your theory, if it fails you scratch it out and come up with a new one, and again and again and again.... until it becomes a Law... like gravity. And even Gravity has that slim chance of failing... just cause the possiblity exists. However that the possibility exists doesn't mean it will happen, but just the fact that its there it only makes it 99.999999999999% fool proof instead of 100%
 
You doubt that gravity is real? Have an apple!

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[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Jun 8 2005, 04:03 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Jun 8 2005, 04:03 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Also, Theories are not "just" anything. First you get an idea, then you make a hypothesis, you test your hypothesis, if it fails you modify it, if it tests positive you test it again, you test it against other ideas, if it fails you modify it, if it test positve, you test it again, then it becomes a theory, you test your theory, if it fails you scratch it out and come up with a new one, and again and again and again.... until it becomes a Law...
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That's precisely why I put "just" in quotes.
 
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