NO PRAYER FOR THE DYING - Your thoughts…

Eddie's Uncle said:
Interesting. Where do you get this? Because I definitely read sources claiming it came out of competition with the Stones, including quotes from McCartney.
Click to expand...
Here’s the Wikipedia blurb for simplicity’s sake (I’m at work right now):

IMG_1642.jpeg

If you want a better source I can look for one later.
 
weebaggy said:
I kinda feel like a good producer reigns in the worst excesses and brings out the best of what the band brings. Could be totally wrong but feels like Steve getting more involved in studio duties here as it's the first time since the first album that production takes a noticeable hit.

For me, at least. I've nothing to base that on ...
Click to expand...
Not only that, but had Birch (who wasn't a yes-man like Kevin Shirley seems to be) kept on producing for the band, he would have likely trimmed a lot of the fat off of pretty much all of the post-FotD albums. This is, of course, a hypothetical to say all the post-FotD albums, since he died a ways back.

It would be very interesting to see how many slow intros we'd have had on TXF, how many chorus repetitions we'd have had on The Angel and the Gambler and Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger, just how long Empire of the Clouds might've wound up being, and how many 7-minute+ songs might've turned ended up being 3-4 minute rockers.

Of course, the song length is something Steve might've pushed harder for, since he started moving the band in more of a proggy direction when Martin retired, so the question might be moot.
 
weebaggy said:
Yeah, but what do you all think of No prayer for the dying? I think the production sucks which weakened the whole album. Shame.
Click to expand...
I think it's a production (mainly the drums sound) that hinders the material from being at least more effective. Better is hard to say. It has its charm ofc, but not ''quite like'' the debut. Riffs sound weak. TXF made a better use of a similar sound, despite some low volumes and decisions, imo.
Even Bruce's BTP album production feels ''better'', a 90's sounding album, which I can't really say about No Prayer. He doesn't like how the album sounds, but at the time he also thought it was a good idea. He even said (iirc) that a proper studio wouldn't improve the sound or the material...
weebaggy said:
I kinda feel like a good producer reigns in the worst excesses and brings out the best of what the band brings. Could be totally wrong but feels like Steve getting more involved in studio duties here as it's the first time since the first album that production takes a noticeable hit.
For me, at least. I've nothing to base that on ...
Click to expand...
CA Bryers said:
Not only that, but had Birch (who wasn't a yes-man like Kevin Shirley seems to be) kept on producing for the band, he would have likely trimmed a lot of the fat off of pretty much all of the post-FotD albums. It would be very interesting to see how many slow intros we'd have had on TXF, how many chorus repetitions we'd have had on The Angel and the Gambler and Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger, just how long Empire of the Clouds might've wound up being, and how many 7-minute+ songs might've turned ended up being 3-4 minute rockers.
Of course, the song length is something Steve might've pushed harder for, since he started moving the band in more of a proggy direction when Martin retired, so the question might be moot.
Click to expand...
Good points (Steve wasn't involved with No Prayer's production, but maybe had some input? Come to think of it, ME's production is not that far from it), but I think good producers are mainly about the sound. Some suggestions, sure, but we can't know about trimming some fat (well said about Steve @CA Bryers ) and Maiden are not a band to take some advice. Bruce maybe but Steve. And he admits that they're hard to work with in the studio.
 
The only reason I own the record is because it's Maiden. Other than that I never listen to it. I almost forget it exists.

Looking back it says alot about the band that they even survived the 90's. This, Fear, X Factor and Virtual XI are average at best.
 
Josh said:
The only reason I own the record is because it's Maiden. Other than that I never listen to it. I almost forget it exists.

Looking back it says alot about the band that they even survived the 90's. This, Fear, X Factor and Virtual XI are average at best.
Click to expand...
I reckon if the Bruce and Adrian reunion hadn't happened we'd probably have gotten one more album at most and probably not even that depending on the Blaze situation.

Living through that time I loved these albums, Fear of the Dark especially, but in hindsight there's a real lack of spark there, especially with the production values.

They had a bit of an identity crisis for the entire 1990s but on the plus side it did make the 2000s feel incredibly special. 1999 to 2008 was absolutely spectacular.
 
Josh said:
The only reason I own the record is because it's Maiden. Other than that I never listen to it. I almost forget it exists.

Looking back it says alot about the band that they even survived the 90's. This, Fear, X Factor and Virtual XI are average at best.
Click to expand...
me too. Definitely the 4 weakest Maiden albums (+ Final Frontier imo).
 
Kalata said:
Good points (Steve wasn't involved with No Prayer's production, but maybe had some input? Come to think of it, ME's production is not that far from it), but I think good producers are mainly about the sound. Some suggestions, sure, but we can't know about trimming some fat (well said about Steve @CA Bryers ) and Maiden are not a band to take some advice. Bruce maybe but Steve. And he admits that they're hard to work with in the studio.
Click to expand...
I know Steve was getting more hands on with production during Fear of the Dark (he mentioned that a few times in interviews for TXF that he'd been sort of co-producing with Martin in recent years). Since they'd started using Barnyard on his property with No Prayer, it's likely he was decently involved during that album's production as well.

I mention "trimming the fat" as it relates to a producer, because I remember a post-BNW interview with Roy Z, who was asked if he'd been asked to produce it (he said no), and what he'd have done with the album. His answer to that was he'd have tried to rein in the arrangements a bit to make the songs a little more to the point.
 
weebaggy said:
I reckon if the Bruce and Adrian reunion hadn't happened we'd probably have gotten one more album at most and probably not even that depending on the Blaze situation.
Click to expand...
At the meeting where Blaze was fired, he asked if Bruce was coming back, and they said yes. Also according to Blaze, the decision had already been made that if it didn't work out with Bruce, they were moving on without Blaze regardless. So, there never would've been a third Blaze album (although he'd been writing during the break for the third album he'd thought they would work on next).
 
I have liked No Prayer For The Dying since the release. The worst song is Bring Your Daughter IMO. I really like the raw production and songs are really good, the title track and Fates Warning especially. I think NPFTD is way better than Fear of The Dark.
 
It all just feels so tired and phoned in, like an obligation.

I feel like they had lost a bit of their identity at this point and lacked a proper direction.

If you look at the albums preceding it, they had a loose theme, something that held it all together.

No Prayer had none of that, it just felt like a collection of B Sides.

But I think a lot of that is down to the production and studio. With a better production and sound it could have all felt much more vital and cohesive.
 
Kalata said:
Plus no Adrian and no songwriting help from Janick, that's important too.
Click to expand...

He absolutely cowrote the album, he just didn’t get credited. Inkeeping with the weird way new band members didn’t use to get any songwriting credit on their first album.
 
Diesel 11 said:
Here’s the Wikipedia blurb for simplicity’s sake (I’m at work right now):

View attachment 41221

If you want a better source I can look for one later.
Click to expand...
You guys are totally offtopic but I will correct this thing about Helter Skelter - Paul read that press quote from Townshend about having a new raucous dirty sounding song and wrote Helter Skelter in response. He didn’t write it after hearing the song itself. He says on Anthology he still didn’t know what song Townshend was actually talking about. So was it inspired by the Who? Yeah sorta, but not really. Not musically, that’s for sure.
 
weebaggy said:
I feel like they had lost a bit of their identity at this point and lacked a proper direction.
Click to expand...
Yes, the issue was Steve was shoehorning them into being a thrash sounding band to try to keep up with what was hip at the time. And Bruce trying to sound tough on those raspy vocals just kills it, it sounds horrible.

That FOTD era b-side where Dickinson calls a horse race and Metallica is coming up in the rear view mirror says it all. They were desperately trying to compete with the big four. Meanwhile you’ve got a guy who went to private schools and studied history at college trying to pretend he’s a badass. It’s just silly. They should have just been themselves.
 
Last edited:
Other random thoughts :

It’s too close in title to Ozzy’s No Rest for the Wicked from a couple of years prior.

The lead guitar intro melody in the title track is the melody of the vocal in Stairway To Heaven - dear lady can you hear the wind blow …

Is that a skull motif above the letter i? It’s similar to the Goonies logo. Hard to make out what it is unless you have the vinyl.

Eddie is being illuminated by nothing in the remaster cover.

IMG_1589.webp
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top