NO PRAYER FOR THE DYING - Your thoughts…

Vaenyr said:
I prefer the 90s and reunion material, but pretending the vast majority of the audience doesn't vastly prefer the 80s material is objectively wrong.
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Definitely 90% or more of the audience prefer the 80s material. I also think most people prefer the reunion albums and especially BNW to Blaze era.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
The Beatles were very important and influential, but neither the most influential or the most important band of all time. How can one even measure this? Especially when it comes to rock music, the Stones were at least as influential, if not more.
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The amount of influence The Beatles had on The Rolling Stones alone makes them more influential.
 
Prowler said:
They didn't just influence hard rock/metal.
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I did not claim they did. I just put heir influence into relativity by saying to rock and metal, there were other acts just as or mpre important than the Beatles
Prowler said:
The most important thing abouth the Beatles is that they influenced the next gen of rockers, like Black Sabbath or Alice Cooper or everyone.
Alice Cooper quote: “The first song by The Beatles I ever heard and it literally changed something in my brain. It inspired what Alice Cooper became.”
He just listened to "she loves you" in 1964 and decided to start a rock band.
Ozzy quote: "It was like going to bed in a black and white world and waking up and it turned to colour. That's exactly what it felt like... and and that wasn't my line."
Ozzy said that about the first time he listened to a Beatles song in 1962. These guys listened to the Beatles when they were kids and it changed their lives. They did the same for many other artists. That's why they are the most important.
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Yes. Ozzy an Alice were largely influneced by them. So what? Still does not mean hey were most important of all time.
Prowler said:
I mean all that happened in a year. There were many bands and Metallica were the most successful. It doesn't make a difference if another band is 2 months older.
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Exciter started in 1979. Venom too. Exodus in 1980. Several years before Metallica.
Diesel 11 said:
The amount of influence The Beatles had on The Rolling Stones alone makes them more influential.
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Not exactly. Beatles and Stones influenced each other and vice versa. They had this competition going on. Stones' Angie was influenced by Beatles as they wanted to show that they could do succesfull love songs too. Beatles' Helter Skelter was influenced by the Stones, as the Beatles wanted to outdo them on the "heavy" stuff. Both bands influenced each other in a friendly rivalry, and there are dozens of interviews out there where they openly talk about that. Beatles were more succesfull in terms of sales, but as I said, that alone not a proof for influence.
BludBrutha said:
Tell me you know nothing about music history without telling me you know nothing about music history.
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Hmm, let's see. I own a master degree in musicology, and part of my master thesis was "Beatlemania as socio-cultural phenomenon". It got rated A- by a professor who studied music in the 60s in Los Angeles, at the very pulse of Beatlemania, so I guess my thesis was not total bullshit...
Does that make me a specialist who can not be wrong? Certainly not, but I guess "knowing nothing about music history" is not accurate. What is your expertise besides "you are stupid, bro"?
As long as you don't have any arguments, you rather prove my point of just repeating common myths as facts.
 
07-SMS:A1L said:
I really disagree with that. I think Iron Maiden fans are sophisticated and discerning when it comes to the setlists.
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I don't see any evidence for this. As other people have pointed out: the casual fans wanna hear the Spotify hits, and don't care much for other songs, let alone being able to tell which album they are from. The hardcore fans do care, but they are so loyal that they go anyway. They may complain online, but when Maiden is on tour, they go anyway and would still do so if Maiden announced playing VXI entirely.
In other words, as long as hey keep the casual fans happy, Maiden can play what they want. The fact that BNW is more prominent in setlists than VXI is probably simply due to Bruce being not tbat interested in singing Blaze stuff.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
- The Beatles were the most important and most innovative band of all time (factually wrong)
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You can't claim something that is subjective to be factually wrong. I'd guess that 90% of pop music historians would disagree with you. The Beatles are very much the most influential group in the history of popular music.
Eddie's Uncle said:
- Metallica started Thrash Metal (factually wrong)
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They factually released the first thrash metal album. As much as Exodus were first on the scene (by a few months), Metallica were the first to give the emerging movement global exposure.
 
07-SMS:A1L said:
That's a pretty naive and idealistic view that doesn't align with reality. Putting you on my ignore list for know since you are spamming a NPFTD thread with this nonsense.
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Blocking someone because they bested you in a debate? Very mature.
 
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Eddie's Uncle said:
Beatles' Helter Skelter was influenced by the Stones, as the Beatles wanted to outdo them on the "heavy" stuff.
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“Helter Skelter” was inspired by The Who, specifically “I Can See for Miles”.

Don’t forget that John and Paul wrote the Stones’ first single, too, and Their Satanic Majesties is inspired by Sgt. Pepper. If you want a contemporary band that really inspired The Beatles and vice versa, try The Beach Boys.
 
07-SMS:A1L said:
It's an opinion, not a factual statement. The clue is in the phrase 'I think.' If I say I think red flowers are more beautiful than yellow ones, are you going to ask me for evidence, too?
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The thing you're reasoning about though isn't about highly subjective matters like "what is the most stunning Iron Maiden song" though, but an assessment about a social group.
 
Yax said:
The thing you're reasoning about though isn't about highly subjective matters like "what is the most stunning Iron Maiden song" though, but an assessment about a social group.
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Wouldn't call it an assessment, no need to make this an academic paper. Iron Maiden fans might be among the pickiest when it comes to setlists compared to fans of other bands. Might be true, might not be true.
 
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07-SMS:A1L said:
It's an opinion, not a factual statement. The clue is in the phrase 'I think.' If I say I think red flowers are more beautiful than yellow ones, are you going to ask me for evidence, too?
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No, I dont. The point is: you are of course entitled to your opinion, I just don't see much in real life that supports this opinion, so I don't find it very convincing. It is also a bit weird that you come up wih setlist statistics and "history lessons" to tell,others they are wrong, but when someone doubts your point, you retreat to just opinions.
 
Diesel 11 said:
“Helter Skelter” was inspired by The Who, specifically “I Can See for Miles”.
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Interesting. Where do you get this? Because I definitely read sources claiming it came out of competition with the Stones, including quotes from McCartney.
Diesel 11 said:
Don’t forget that John and Paul wrote the Stones’ first single, too, and Their Satanic Majesties is inspired by Sgt. Pepper. If you want a contemporary band that really inspired The Beatles and vice versa, try The Beach Boys.
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Yes Beach Boys also were part of it. And early Beatles where heavily inspired by the Byrds.
 
Spaldy said:
You can't claim something that is subjective to be factually wrong.
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Claiming that a band is the most important of all time is a factual claim, and thus can be factual wrong. Saying "the Beatöes are the most important band TO ME" would be subjective and could not be factually wrong.
Spaldy said:
I'd guess that 90% of pop music historians would disagree with you. The Beatles are very much the most influential group in the history of popular music.
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Well, I have no numbers, but quite a few musicologists agree with me. Many of them consider Elvis as more important, including the theory that the Beatles would have never happened without him.
Spaldy said:
They factually released the first thrash metal album. As much as Exodus were first on the scene (by a few months), Metallica were the first to give the emerging movement global exposure.
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Exodus preceded them at least two years on demos. Venom (basically thrash too) released albums before them. Not sure when the first exciter record came out, but I think it was a year prior. I am not here to dispute the importance and influence of Metallica!! I just dispute the myth that they created the thrash movement.
 
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weebaggy said:
Yeah, but what do you all think of No prayer for the dying? I think the production sucks which weakened the whole album. Shame.
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I think that there isn't really much for the lackluster production to ruin.

Like, a better production would be very beneficial to The X Factor - Blaze's live album renditions kick ass. There are quite a few cool tunes hidden underneath that turd of an album production. There's more to that album than it seems like on the surface.

But I don't think that's the case with No Prayer. The songs are lazy and often bad. No production in the world would carry them.
 
I kinda feel like a good producer reigns in the worst excesses and brings out the best of what the band brings. Could be totally wrong but feels like Steve getting more involved in studio duties here as it's the first time since the first album that production takes a noticeable hit.

For me, at least. I've nothing to base that on ...
 
I had also heard that Helter Skelter was inspired by The Who, not the Stones.
 
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