New Single - The Writing on the Wall

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
You’re probably going to take a lot of crap for that opinion, but I agree with you. The thing is, when that came out metal bands weren’t doing songs of that length. The hard rock magazines and press at the time made a huge deal over it and the fans often looked to it a source of pride, like, “name another band that could do this”. But in the progressive rock world, Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, etc had been releasing longer, more complex, epic material for years at that point.

The impact it had on the metal community was important though, as I think it played a huge role in more bands trying lengthier and more complex songs. Helloween‘s songs “Halloween“ and ”Keeper Of The Seven Keys” come to mind as songs that I think Rime opened the gates for.
Yes, maybe there was some perhaps "ground breaking-ness" to it, IDK
With Maiden and metal in general there is a fair bit of "folklaw" or "urband lengend" or "old wive's tales" going on to make things more than they are.

Many old school maiden fans talk up how intelligent Maiden are, that they write songs about poems, history, movies, war and whot not, that they don't write about sex or romance like many pop songs, hard rock or american glam, and hair metal.
Other "old wives tales" are about how metal music has classical influence how some singers are operatic. (people hear a acoustic appegiation and tout, "look they are classical" - OH BOY. GIVE ME A BREAK!
Some people talk of Empire of the Cloud about being a master piece. (It's a very simple song, especially the piano part)

In my view Heavy metal has a bit of a conundrum. The distortion is great, gives a lot of sustain, give a feeling of power and aggression. But, power chords aren't really chords. They have two notes to them, the root and the fifth. Maiden it seems almost always write their songs in Em and almost always use the same three chords throughout most of every song.
Their strength is their melodies, and guitar solos. (if you are into solos and guitar melodies).
There are far more musically complex bands out there, far better singers out there. Nightwish for example beat Maiden hands down in both these departments. Metal has gone in so many directions, Maiden are still just doing what Maiden do. It works for them, the music is very enjoyable. They don't tend to follow trends (double bass anyone), they aren't particularly great at music theory, they aren't overly progressive (Thankfully). They do have some formulas they use as they are just 5 of 6 blokes that write all these songs. They have limited musical knowledge and capability.
But hey, I really like their music. They don't have to be complex, they don't have to be trendy, they don't have to have the best singer, they don't have to be hard and fast.
Just enjoy them for what they are.
If you want hard and fast, there are bands doing that, if you want complex, there are bands doing that, if you want progressive, there are bands doing that. Maiden don't have to.
It's pretty typical to pine over days past. Almost always bands are boxed into a Classic line up or the classics or the classic period. People tend to pine over that and it stops them enjoying fully the new stuff. - Sad but true!
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
I disagree on damning the Black Album. BA has plenty of good songs. Sell-out/poppy? Sure, okay. But the songs are solid. They work. There's definite groove and they still hit it hard with My Friend of Misery, Of Wolf and Man, and Struggle Within. It is indeed the beginning of the end but I kinda get tired of metalheads damning the album as some sort of sell-out. Where were they supposed to go after the awesome-yet-insane complexity of what I personally consider the great metal album of all time - AJFA ??? The trio of RTL/MOP/AJFA will never be toppled as the greatest run of albums by any metal band ever. Kill 'Em All and Black Album are nice bookends. Every after? Sure, yeah, they suck to varying degrees...no argument there!
I actually don't like AJFA. It's better than TBA but I find the songs plodding with no direction, overly repetitive and lacking in colour. To me Master of Puppets is Metallica's gem. Their crowning glory. I've deleted TBA from my playlist and every other Metallica album since and I find myself going to my Metallica playlist more than I did when those albums were in it. I don't miss them at all.
I don't think there is anything necessarily bad about going commercial. I like Within Temptation's Hydra album best of all their albums and that is quite commercial. But I just liked Metallica's thrash stuff much better than their non thrash stuff. I find it funny that they are seen as the leader of the "Big Four" which is a meaningless term anyway, but Metallica don't do thrash, haven't done it for 30 years.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
The trio of RTL/MOP/AJFA will never be toppled as the greatest run of albums by any metal band ever. Kill 'Em All and Black Album are nice bookends. Every after? Sure, yeah, they suck to varying degrees...no argument there!
Obviously it comes down to tastes.
But I'd rather have
Maiden, Killers, NOTB, Piece of Mind, Powerslave , Somewhere in time and Seventh Son
Peace Sells, So far so good, Rust, Countdown, Youthanasia
 

Twarkle

Nomad
Yes, maybe there was some perhaps "ground breaking-ness" to it, IDK
With Maiden and metal in general there is a fair bit of "folklaw" or "urband lengend" or "old wive's tales" going on to make things more than they are.

Many old school maiden fans talk up how intelligent Maiden are, that they write songs about poems, history, movies, war and whot not, that they don't write about sex or romance like many pop songs, hard rock or american glam, and hair metal.
Other "old wives tales" are about how metal music has classical influence how some singers are operatic. (people hear a acoustic appegiation and tout, "look they are classical" - OH BOY. GIVE ME A BREAK!
Some people talk of Empire of the Cloud about being a master piece. (It's a very simple song, especially the piano part)

In my view Heavy metal has a bit of a conundrum. The distortion is great, gives a lot of sustain, give a feeling of power and aggression. But, power chords aren't really chords. They have two notes to them, the root and the fifth. Maiden it seems almost always write their songs in Em and almost always use the same three chords throughout most of every song.
Their strength is their melodies, and guitar solos. (if you are into solos and guitar melodies).
There are far more musically complex bands out there, far better singers out there. Nightwish for example beat Maiden hands down in both these departments. Metal has gone in so many directions, Maiden are still just doing what Maiden do. It works for them, the music is very enjoyable. They don't tend to follow trends (double bass anyone), they aren't particularly great at music theory, they aren't overly progressive (Thankfully). They do have some formulas they use as they are just 5 of 6 blokes that write all these songs. They have limited musical knowledge and capability.
But hey, I really like their music. They don't have to be complex, they don't have to be trendy, they don't have to have the best singer, they don't have to be hard and fast.
Just enjoy them for what they are.
If you want hard and fast, there are bands doing that, if you want complex, there are bands doing that, if you want progressive, there are bands doing that. Maiden don't have to.
It's pretty typical to pine over days past. Almost always bands are boxed into a Classic line up or the classics or the classic period. People tend to pine over that and it stops them enjoying fully the new stuff. - Sad but true!
I totally understand where you’re coming from. When I was about 15 in 1989 I had been playing guitar for about 3 years and I was convinced that all other genres of guitar player sucked outside of metal and no music could be more complex. Then my instructor gave me a bunch of Allan Holdsworth discs and I was like, “oh shit, I know nothing about music”. By the time I started studying at Berklee in the early 90’s I had been forced to reassess my views on many of my metal beliefs.

And, yeah, I could listen to Floor Jansen sing all day.
 

gazda

Educated Fool
Why we always have this Maiden Metallica fight? I love both bands.

For me Maiden are the best, but my first touch with metal music was when I saw prison video od St.Anger on MTV, so thank you Metallica for hooking me up into metal with shitty song on shitty TV program.

So that Metallica "sell out" gain some new fans and bring them into metal music.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
Why we always have this Maiden Metallica fight? I love both bands.

For me Maiden are the best, but my first touch with metal music was when I saw prison video od St.Anger on MTV, so thank you Metallica for hooking me up into metal with shitty song on shitty TV program.

So that Metallica "sell out" gain some new fans and bring them into metal music.
My point wasn't to say that Maiden is better than Metalica, but that I don't think Maiden should have focused on pleasing the USA market.
 

Powrslave

Prowler
I aint ashamed saying Load - Songs 3-6 excluding the rest is some of their Best Ever Shit! Better than the Black Album on a good stereo anyway. ReLoad is an example of why Powerslave 2 just sounds like a Bullshit Idea!
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
3. Regarding the reported length of the song -- 6.13 -- I wonder if that was deliberate? Given the subject/inspiration of Daniel, the #613 has a very powerful meaning in Kabbalah & Judaism.
I'm not familiar with the bible. Heard of it of course. LOL
So, due to your post I did a quick search and found this
Genesis 6.13
"And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
And thought, OK, yeah, maybe. The video was post apocalyptic, the "writings on the wall" is about us heading on a trajectory to our doom. So maybe.

But then I realised there are lots of 6.13's in the bible. So I went back to your post. You stated Daniel so I did a search for that and found something. Is Danial a chapter???
"Then answered they and said before the king, That Daniel, which is of the children of the captivity of Judah, regardeth not thee, O king, nor the decree that thou hast signed, but maketh his petition three times a day."

But I can't make any sense of that sentence. Guess if I read more of the chapter it would make sense??
Can't work out what it has to do with the lyrics or the music video.
 

R@inmaker

Educated Fool
Obviously it comes down to tastes.
But I'd rather have
Maiden, Killers, NOTB, Piece of Mind, Powerslave , Somewhere in time and Seventh Son
Peace Sells, So far so good, Rust, Countdown, Youthanasia
I will agree that the MDeth trio of RIP, CTE and Youtanasia is FANTASTIC, right up there with anyone !
 

R@inmaker

Educated Fool
But then I realised there are lots of 6.13's in the bible. So I went back to your post. You stated Daniel so I did a search for that and found something. Is Danial a chapter???
"Then answered they and said before the king, That Daniel, which is of the children of the captivity of Judah, regardeth not thee, O king, nor the decree that thou hast signed, but maketh his petition three times a day."

But I can't make any sense of that sentence. Guess if I read more of the chapter it would make sense??
Can't work out what it has to do with the lyrics or the music video.
Daniel is an OT major prophet and, yes, has how book. The chapter-verse you're speaking of regards Daniel's unwillingness to acknowledge/worship Nebuchadnezar as god and that's why he was thrown into the lion's den. Yes, of course, this and Genesis (and probably many 6:13's in Bible) could fit into these themes. But, yeah, Daniel 6:13 is part of the Belshazar's Feast trope from Maiden. I would recommend reading a non-King James Version Bible to be honest...and, yes, worth reading if for no other reason than to understand the single greatest Book ever compiled/written/inspired/etc. Kinda an important book in Western and Easter Civ. Cotnrary to most beliefs, the Bible is an Eastern book not Western :)
 

R@inmaker

Educated Fool
I aint ashamed saying Load - Songs 3-6 excluding the rest is some of their Best Ever Shit! Better than the Black Album on a good stereo anyway. ReLoad is an example of why Powerslave 2 just sounds like a Bullshit Idea!
there are absolutely some good tunes on Load (Until It Sleeps, House That Jack Built, Bleeding Me, King Of The Day to name a few) but it's the reality that Metallica were largely phoning it in at that point and embarrassingly aware of fashion and NOT sounding metal at the time. one doesn't have to look at the fucking haircuts, eyeliners and fur coats to get that the band was serioulsy distancing itself from its past and that's something Maiden would NEVER do. Maiden stand alone just for that fact - they'd never shit on their fans!
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
I would recommend reading a non-King James Version Bible to be honest...and, yes, worth reading if for no other reason than to understand the single greatest Book ever compiled/written/inspired/etc. Kinda an important book in Western and Easter Civ. Cotnrary to most beliefs, the Bible is an Eastern book not Western :)
I don't want to get into a religious argument, just interested in Maiden trivia.
I understand you are entitled to like the book and think it is the greatest ever. That's your opinion.

I have some books I like too, I have no idea if they are the greatest ever. But the bible doesn't get onto my must read list.
 
I'm not familiar with the bible. Heard of it of course. LOL
So, due to your post I did a quick search and found this
Genesis 6.13
"And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
And thought, OK, yeah, maybe. The video was post apocalyptic, the "writings on the wall" is about us heading on a trajectory to our doom. So maybe.

But then I realised there are lots of 6.13's in the bible. So I went back to your post. You stated Daniel so I did a search for that and found something. Is Danial a chapter???
"Then answered they and said before the king, That Daniel, which is of the children of the captivity of Judah, regardeth not thee, O king, nor the decree that thou hast signed, but maketh his petition three times a day."

But I can't make any sense of that sentence. Guess if I read more of the chapter it would make sense??
Can't work out what it has to do with the lyrics or the music video.
I didn't mean that 613 was a reference to a Bible verse -- instead, it's one of the most important #s in Kabbalah & Judaism in & of itself: 613 is actually the total number of commandments in the Bible (248 positive, 365 negative = 613). Plus, since letters double as numbers in Hebrew, Kabbalah practitioners assign meanings/values/etc to certain numbers. 613 is uniquely important for these folks.

(BTW, the next IM song that's 7 mins & 6 secs long should, IMO, be listed as 6.66... just for fun. And 'cause Satan is cool.)
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
Maiden stand alone just for that fact - they'd never shit on their fans!
Bad songs is one thing, but the loudness on Deaf Magnetic was atrocious. So much audible clipping. Just entirely ruined the album.
They make it Loud purely due to the perception or hope that it improves sales. So the sound quality was totally ruined/compromised all in the hope of having increased sales. That was the worst case of "shitting on the fans" that I've seen.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
I didn't mean that 613 was a reference to a Bible verse -- instead, it's one of the most important #s in Kabbalah & Judaism in & of itself: 613 is actually the total number of commandments in the Bible (248 positive, 365 negative = 613). Plus, since letters double as numbers in Hebrew, Kabbalah practitioners assign meanings/values/etc to certain numbers. 613 is uniquely important for these folks.
Oh, I had no idea.
 
Ok, I’ve had my fill of that Powerslave 2 and Maiden v Metallica discussion now but do appreciate the debate.

Three days now of solid listening to The Writing On The Wall…
The (kinda) soulless singing of Bruce in the chorus reminds me the chorus of ''The Man Of Sorrows'' (which is my least favorite song from TBOS album).
I find it more comparable to his style in Starblind or WTWWB where he remains in mid-range but really gets into “storytelling mode” if that makes sense. To my ears and brain the chorus of TWOTW is a brilliant anthem. Mid-range vocal choruses can be epic…thinking Dio’s Last in Line or even Sabbath’s Hell or Hell.

And I haven’t enjoyed an animated music video so much since Gorillaz’ Clint Eastwood.
 
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