Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
+ ''Como Estais Amigos'' because of the melody between the two solos.
This.
For me he sounds pretty good, but not amazing... (still). Maybe that's because the album was recorded in 2019 (rather than in 2018).
New Single - The Writing on the Wall
- Thread starter LooseCannon
- Start date
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Deleted member 7164
Guest
United States is a fashionable country that liked Maiden only because they had the shock factor and the live grandeur.
Your statements are the bussiness case of Maiden. Their numbers have been dropping since SiT, which is the third headlining tour they've done in that country. And been plummeting ever since, only to rise up the bar again with Brave New World. Why on earth should anyone cater to market that's been either meek or straight out hostile for them for the better part of their career.
25 years ago Maiden was playing bars in USA and stadiums in South America. You don't deserve the album you want.
Maturin
Sköldpadda
Iron Maiden, from a marketing standpoint, is a dream of a brand in most aspects.
Not just musically, even though they still at retirement age are producing material which gets people super excited.
I just find the discussion of musical direction through the years a bit tiring. The music industry is weird. It's well documented that bands whose records failed to perform or which failed to reach the heights of previous efforts were put under gigantic pressure in the 1980's. A lot of people depended on their success for work. Record companies had a lot of say in most stuff. On the other end, there are stories like George Lynch and Michael Wagener (confirmed) running the guitars for a million dollar record through a cheap Fostex casette recorder to get 'crunch' (which by the way, worked - the Under Lock and Key guitar tone is glorious), hiding the process under a blanket when the executives came looking.
To my point, unless there is some serious discontent within the camp (not likely at this point) no one will confess to what happened between any change of direction. The only well-documented case is firing Blaze to get Bruce back and no one would ever say that was a bad decision, wherever it came from.
But please let's not pretend there aren't market forces likely involved and accounted for in most decisions made. The only completely free artists are the ones in their own bedrooms doing it for fun.
Not just musically, even though they still at retirement age are producing material which gets people super excited.
I just find the discussion of musical direction through the years a bit tiring. The music industry is weird. It's well documented that bands whose records failed to perform or which failed to reach the heights of previous efforts were put under gigantic pressure in the 1980's. A lot of people depended on their success for work. Record companies had a lot of say in most stuff. On the other end, there are stories like George Lynch and Michael Wagener (confirmed) running the guitars for a million dollar record through a cheap Fostex casette recorder to get 'crunch' (which by the way, worked - the Under Lock and Key guitar tone is glorious), hiding the process under a blanket when the executives came looking.
To my point, unless there is some serious discontent within the camp (not likely at this point) no one will confess to what happened between any change of direction. The only well-documented case is firing Blaze to get Bruce back and no one would ever say that was a bad decision, wherever it came from.
But please let's not pretend there aren't market forces likely involved and accounted for in most decisions made. The only completely free artists are the ones in their own bedrooms doing it for fun.
R@inmaker
Educated Fool
Look I'm American and the American music scene has been utter shit for about 30 years. Since the rise of hip-hop/rap to absolute (and sad) dominance. American popular music hasn't evolved in that entire time. We're a bunch of automatons when it comes to all things popular culture. Maiden's fall had more to do with the disastrous decision to go in the simplistic AOR/70's rock direction with NPFTD and, then, Bruce's departure. Nobody at the time wanted Blaze leading that band. I know there are Blaze fans here but that's the truth - it was a tragedy of epic proportions to see what happened to Maiden from '93 to '000.
And then, in a flash (of the blade), they were back! And along with Metallica, Maiden RULES the heavy metal world. Nobody sell records anymore. That industry is dead. You go to any Maiden show in North America and you're gonna see at least 20,000 fans. Only Metallica can say that. Maiden knows this. They are beyond trend and fashion. Metallica is likely jealous that they didn't stick to their guns as they now sadly follow fashion and haven't produced anything of significance since 1991.
The question you have to ask yourself is - is Maiden still producing viable, artistic, important music today? Fuck yeah they are!!! Is it as ground-breaking and timeless as the 80's heyday? Hell no. But they aren't just going through the motions like Metallica and Ozzy/Sabbath (the only other two artists you can compare them to for importance to metal). This new song is not everyone's cup of tea but Maiden is not rehashing anything and yet still producing interesting, competent music that fans will still be listening to 20 years from now. I don't know ANYBODY that gives a fuck about ReLoad, St. Anger (worst metal album ever given the source imho), or Death Magnetic. Those are giant piles of shit and everyone knows it. Maiden is absolutely NOT in that company at this point...and that's amazing since they are all rich as hell and could be playing golf (or soccer) the rest of their lives. Bottom line: bc of that crap Metallica has produced for the better part of 25 years now, Maiden is now absolutely the undisputed kings of metal. And everyone knows it.
Twarkle
Nomad
I loved your entire post, but I just want to say this times 1000. Wagener also used 16 mics on the cabs on top of running it through George’s Fostex as you mentioned. What an unreal tone, and that‘s without even mentioning Lynch’s playing on that album. The list of guitar tones that Michael Wagener designed is just unreal.
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Deleted member 7164
Guest
I don't have issues with what Americans listen to, it's these ultimate opinions that I respond to, because they're based on nothing.
"Everyone knows that Maiden is king of metal and Metallica isn't"
"Everyone in USA wants Powerslave"
You guys sure do know a lot of your compatriots, if you can claim 'everyone'. Last time I checked USA got a few hundred million people, do you use Linkedin to keep track of all those opinions or? Seems like quite a task.
Their numbers have been falling since Somewhere in Time, steadily.
Also there is no "fall". Please use a more universal perspective than one from your own region. Iron Maiden survived without $ from that audience, therefore there is no merit in fatalistic approach. Iron Maiden has been constantly rising in South America throughout that time. Although UK and USA are lucrative markets, Maiden played to a lot of people in Europe in the 90s
Twarkle
Nomad
Your post was largely on point until this statement. American’s being fickle doesn’t mean die hard Maiden fans don’t deserve good music (and I’m not saying I don’t think recent Maiden isn’t good). And all Maiden selling out South American stadiums 25 years ago tells me is that the South American Maiden fans simply didn’t care that they had to suffer though 2 hours of Blaze Bailey live, as long as they got to see a metal show.
I saw Blaze’s first US show, he was awful, but yeah it was at a small club, no doubt about that, and the fans who didn’t know Bruce had left were super unhappy. But no one should be expected to sit through what Maiden was at that time.
Maiden10_0
Nomad
They have given us one song. It’s new Music! Enjoy it! It’s a single! This situation is just like the others when they release a single. IMO, the last two singles they released on Final Frontier and Book of Souls, was no where near the rest of those albums. I’m calling it right now…. The new Album will be named Feast of Belshazzar, and it’s going to be a concept album. The Writing On The Wall is a social commentary on today’s political and social climate. Does it start off sounding like The Allman Bros’ Midnight Rider??? Hell yes! But when Bruce starts wailing, it’s undeniably Maiden in all their glory! Be glad we now have a halfway mainstream song to convert new Maiden Fans!
R@inmaker
Educated Fool
Dude you are missing the macro realities of the record business. CD/album sales PEAKED in 2000. EVERYONE's sales have fallen since that time. That includes Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen, Beyonce (who cares)....EVERYONE. Maiden's declining sales of albums (let's call SSOASS an anomaly is lowered sales bc everyone agrees it's a stellar album now, right?) coincided for the most part with the disastrous creative direction starting in '90 and then the departure of Bruce and the subsequent decline in relevance. So what happened with Bruce's return with BNW? Their biggest sales numbers since the 80's which coincided with peak album sales that year. The better barometer for their popularity is absolutely ticket sales. And where have tickets sales gone since 1990??? Way, way, way up. Everyone wants to see Maiden live. Fucking Taylor Swift sees Maiden live. They are more popular than ever, period.
Smither
Ancient Mariner
As a brazilian, I can agree that Maiden got even bigger here in the 90s. FOTD was a huge success in South America, both the title track and the album. ATSS and Wasting Love are amongst the most popular Maiden songs here, for example. When you add to that the fact that they finally started touring South America for real, they got full stadiums every time they came, even with Blaze. After Bruce returned, those numbers got even bigger for sure. I'm only 21 and growing up I clearly had the feeling that Maiden were WAY bigger than Metallica.
Twarkle
Nomad
I just want to add a little levity to this conversation. I’ve taken my 12 year old daughter to Maiden twice, 11th row center on the Legacy of the Beast tour (Tweeter Center only removes the first 10 rows of floor seats for general admission and the rest of the floor is assigned seating) and on the Book Of Souls tour at Madison Square Garden where my brother’s firm gave me the entire Lexus Box Suite to myself, both times my kid was asked by fans if she was psyched to see Maiden, and both times she answered, “well I mostly listen to Taylor Swift…but I like Fear of the Dark”.
Josh
Ancient Mariner
Maiden survived the 90's and kept their integrity which can't be said for Metallica. As bad as I think Virtual XI is, Futureal and Clansman is better than anything on Reload. Dance of Death smokes St Anger and AMOLAD is much more satisfying as a whole than Death Magnetic is. Metallica didn't do themselves any favors either by airing their dirty laundry and coming off like dbags with the Some Kind Of Monster documentary. Could you imagine Maiden having therapy sessions and going on and on about their fucking feelings all while making a film about it?
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Deleted member 7164
Guest
What I meant is that Play Classics crowd will not get a Play Classics album, the rest of us (USA or elsewhere) gets something that's worth listening at. And it's a response to exceptionalism, which is drawn out clearly in these posts.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
The Duellists was certainly a peak, yes. A Top 10 Maiden track of all times.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
You're missing hundreds of pages written about the subject on this forum
I am talking about drop in sales from 1986 towards which has nothing to do with this. The decline did not start with NPFTD, Blaze, decline of CDs or whatnot, it started right after the Powerslave tour.
Twarkle
Nomad
That’s fair. I just think it’s better to not try and divide fans based on their nationalities. None of us would be spending our time here if we weren’t die hard fans. I think the bigger issue is, somehow there is a subset of the fanbase, who even after the last 4 albums still thinks the next one is going to be a return to the 80’s, and is seemingly more perplexed and upset with each release that isn’t what they want.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Thank you, agreed, but I think several of you still don't get the post I was replying to. The claim was that if Maiden kept on Powerslaving they'd be turbo popular in the states. The claim entirely misses the context of the environment in which Maiden was popular in the 1980s vs the one of the Brave New World era. There is no way to have the cake and eat it too...Maiden would never rise back in the mood of late 90s if they didn't build their way up from a point that was opposite to what mainstream states audience was expecting. Yes in 1985 Maiden were mainstream and in 2001 they were equally as big but they were on the flipside. In 1985 Motley Crue was around in 2001 Sepultura was around. There is no way a spandex yielding band would survive the 90s and actually keep on thriving after a few low profile years. The change had to come. Wanting Powerslave II in 1990 as opposed to NPFTD is wanting the band to die by 1996 and never come back.
What does “Powerslave 2” even mean? Smith/Dickinson songs with big hooks? Blistering guitar duels? Dickinson penned epics? Harris penned epics? Extended instrumental odysseys? E C D chord progressions? The Book of Souls has all of those things. I’m not sure what people are actually clamoring for when they say Maiden should do a sequel to an old album. Their formula hasn’t changed that much.
The reality is that mainstream audiences don’t care about new music from Maiden. They want to hear the old songs they know and grew up with. It’s about nostalgia and childhood memories, not new music. The fact that Maiden recognize this and make music that caters to their hardcore fan base is the reason why that fan base is so huge.
The reality is that mainstream audiences don’t care about new music from Maiden. They want to hear the old songs they know and grew up with. It’s about nostalgia and childhood memories, not new music. The fact that Maiden recognize this and make music that caters to their hardcore fan base is the reason why that fan base is so huge.
Twarkle
Nomad
You know what’s so funny is, if Maiden did come out with “Powerslave 2“ that the part of the fanbase that was clamoring for them to do it, would then complain that played too much of it live and it was taking up setlist space where they should be playing the classics.