Most tortured rhyme in a Maiden song?
- Thread starter Black Abyss Babe
- Start date
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
No, the lead starts at that Bruce lyric (~01:53) you quoted (nice & slow), which leads immediately onto a more up-tempo section, which you, I suggest, are incorrectly identifying as the start of the solo, at ~02:19.
I'm guessing this is a stab at me mentioning a line from Alexander the Great.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Actually, Alexander the Great would probably make a good scientific paper, since it only tells plain facts about him.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
All the lyrics to Running Free and Women In Uniform.
And of course the infamous:
"In a time when dinosaurs walked the earth
When the land was swamp and caves were home"
And of course the infamous:
"In a time when dinosaurs walked the earth
When the land was swamp and caves were home"
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
"Quest for Fire" has terrible lyrics. Not only is it lame, I'm pretty sure dinosaurs and cavemen existing at the same time has been bunk for ages...
As for "Women in Uniform", at least they didn't write that one.
Dunno what makes you think that. I read it as him saying lyrics don't bother him much, as they are only a small part of a bigger machine. Poor wording on a scientific paper would be much worse.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Perun, I know that you have been very much into this subject so I can imagine that you would have preferred to see a better version of the lyrics.
And you also happen to write scientific papers.
But it wasn't meant as a stab. And it's not directed especially at you only, per se. It's an older reaction that popped up from a discussion about that song (in which I also used the word science or something like that in my argumentation), and it emphasizes the way I experience songs. By making a contrast I wanted to show my approach.
That said, the word handicap could have sounded (or can be interpreted) in an offensive way.
I apologize for the phrasing of my post. The intent of the post was not meant no harm honestly, just to explain.
edit:
Well yes, it was also a reaction to the whole topic. To the whole idea of letting a line dominate the listening pleasure when there's so much else.
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I agree with that too. I've never had a song ruined for me because of the lyrics. AtG lyrics are bad, yea, but the thing that puts me off about it is really the vocal melodies. It's borderline rapping, a song that melodic and epic deserves more creative singing.
Yeah, I've said a number of times that it's not the historical inaccuracies that bother me with the lyrics, but the prosaic and childish way the lyrics are written.
Yes, that was indeed a bit off the mark, and I took offense at that. It's not nice to hear that you are handicapped because you have a different point of view from someone else. So I accept your apology.
I also hope you appreciate the fact that I haven't discussed lyrics on this board for three years now.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
That's not exactly the way it was meant. Not in relation to other people, it was more meant as showing that overemphasizing one thing can lead to an obstruction (does that sound better?) to appreciate a song.
I am glad about that.
Appreciate? Well, I don't hope this is some kind of self censorship related to comments from people (*cough*) on the forum.
I am actually looking forward to see your take on lyrics when the next album comes out. Also I miss reactions to my rare takes on lyrics.
To me, it all belongs together. I listen to the lyrics the way I listen to the rest of the song. Maiden's lyrics are very often very good, so if they don't live up to the standards set by the band themselves, I treat them as much an annoyance as a bad guitar solo or a poor vocal line. Which is why I am more tolerant of poor lyrics on the early albums, because they display an earlier phase in the band's evolution, and why I'm less tolerant of poor lyrics on an album such as No Prayer, because it comes right after the poetic high points of Seventh Son.
To be brutally honest, it is. I really enjoy discussing lyrics, but that enjoyment is hampered if in every thread and every discussion that comes up, there is going to be a post saying "to me, music is more important." The vehemence with which these posts appear every single time makes me feel that discussion of lyrics actually offends you, so I just stopped it.
To me, music comes first too. I love the music of Iron Maiden. I wouldn't listen to them if I didn't. But I'm not a musician. I can't talk competently about chord progression or drum patterns. All I can say is, "that's a great riff!" or "blinding harmonies" or "stunning solos". I don't think that would be interesting to read. So I thought it would be more interesting to discuss lyrics, something I think I'm good at, and can actually contribute something of value. I used to think it's a given that with music and a band, the music is the most important thing. So I would discuss lyrics under that premise.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Thanks for explaining your view on this.
I am not sure what to think of this. I can't say that I know for sure if every discussion went like that and I am also not sure if silence is the best thing to do. I'll let this sink in.
For now, at least I maintain by what I said in my last sentence.
I am not sure what to think of this. I can't say that I know for sure if every discussion went like that and I am also not sure if silence is the best thing to do. I'll let this sink in.
For now, at least I maintain by what I said in my last sentence.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I think this is a good point. I tend to give 70s/80s lyrics in general (not just Maiden) some slack because I really started listening to rock in the late 70s when I was 10 with bands like Kiss and into the 80s with metal, but also rock bands like Motley Crue, etc.
I am more tolerant of lyrics about cars, banging girls, etc because I was in my mid teens and about those were topics of interest. I'll admit that some of the more cheesy/vulgar lyrics make me cringe now from some bands, but not really Maiden up to No Prayer.
I try to look at music (or movies or any art) as an artifact of the point in time when it was created and judge it based on the time it was created and the maturity of the artist. A song like Running Free or Sanctuary would be received poorly if they were on TFF, but given the time, the age and makeup of the band at the time, they fit well and I have no problem with them.
I do have a problem with some of the No Prayer/FotD lyrics because they should have been better at that time.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I agree wholeheartedly with this logic. I am a musician and a songwriter. As such, I hold all of the elements within a song to an equal standard. There is a tendency among many fans to belittle the importance of lyrics in music, especially with metal and rock bands. As someone who loves listening to music, playing music, writing music, and performing music, I find this mindset to be insulting. Lyrics are often the most difficult part of a song to write. It can take infinitely longer to find the right words for a chorus, whereas a good riff can come about in a matter of seconds.
Appreciation is often lacking when it comes to lyrical prowess, and it's downright sad. If lyrical content was inferior to instrumental music, then every song would simply have nonsense syllables sung in a catchy melody. Better yet, a lead guitar or piano could simply play the vocal melody and we could eliminate the singer altogether, thus turning every band into a well-rehearsed, well-written instrumental act with no commercial viability.
I think it is safe to say that a majority of people who seek out the message boards of their favorite bands are musicians. We want to discuss the music, we want to explore the intricacies of every song, every guitar solo, every drum fill. But we're forgetting the people out there who connect with the lyrics, the average fans of the world who hear a melody and lyrics and suddenly their world is turned upside down. They have found something to connect to, to relate to, and that often comes from the lyrics. I love the discussion of lyrics, and I find it refreshing considering how many topics float around about the seventeen note in Adrian Smith's guitar solo that starts at 2:37 and ends at 2:54, where he uses a subtle whammy bar inflection following the catchy bluesy hook he plays in second position.
Absolutely. I think you have to put a timestamp on some things to justify their existence, just as much as you have to date yourself to the age you were when you heard that song for the first time. If I was eighteen and I heard "Sanctuary", I would think it was awesome. It not only fits the age of the composers, it fits the attitude and image of that era. So, to hear the same style of lyrics written over ten years later, by a band that has written Somewhere in Time and SSoaSS, it feels childish. I think what rubs me the wrong way about the lyrics on those two albums is that they feel like pandering, like a deliberate attempt to write "street" lyrics that will be ballsy, silly, and shocking. But, the thing is, that no longer fits the state of the band. You can't tour the world five times, deliver a million dollar stage show with gigantic robotics, pyrotechnics, and costumed swordplay, and then start writing about "greasy machines" and "well hung feelings", it no longer feels authentic.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Good points, but I have a thought about this
I have gotten into a few German bands recently (in part because I went there and bought some music and in part I am trying to learn the language). But I have found some songs that I really liked upon first listen, but had no clue what the lyrics meant. But I did like the singing.
I also wonder about people in non English speaking countries that get into English speaking/singing bands and to what degree some fans really understand the lyrics as just a literal translation will lose some meaning.
I have gotten into a few German bands recently (in part because I went there and bought some music and in part I am trying to learn the language). But I have found some songs that I really liked upon first listen, but had no clue what the lyrics meant. But I did like the singing.
I also wonder about people in non English speaking countries that get into English speaking/singing bands and to what degree some fans really understand the lyrics as just a literal translation will lose some meaning.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I think there is always a desire to understand the lyrics, even if they are in another language. As you said, you are attempting to learn German, so have you translated or attempted to translate those songs? Obviously, this is a special case, but I think there will always be that drive to comprehend what the band is trying to say, regardless of the language.
I'm certainly not saying that it is impossible to like something based on melody alone, but that further investigation and understanding of the lyrics should ultimately enhance one's enjoyment of the song. The same way someone might find a particular musical passage intriguing due to the drums playing in a different, but complimentary rhythm to the guitar. If they were to investigate further and start learning about polyrhythms, they would have a new appreciation and understanding of that music.
Conversely, if someone is singing in Swedish and I listen to it and like it, then find out they're singing about their love of white supremacy, I'm going to stop listening.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
True, it can enhance or detract from the song based on the meaning. But there are words in every language that do not translate well or have special meaning to a particular country or region. I guess my point is even with an accurate literal translation of a song, some nuance is lost and that may make the lyrics sound better or worse to a listener than they might to a native speaker or someone from a particular area. For example, there are some British words that do not have the same meaning or less (or more) emotion behind them to an American or vice versa.
I am not saying lyrics are unimportant at all, they are an important component of any song, but I think the music is perhaps more important and the lyrics can tip a good song to great or a good song to not as good.
I am not saying lyrics are unimportant at all, they are an important component of any song, but I think the music is perhaps more important and the lyrics can tip a good song to great or a good song to not as good.
dickinson1978
Ancient Mariner
I always thought that Alexander the great lyrics were a bit embarrasing 
, but i will support you in every act to have it played live.But yes,its like they copy lines of a history book.
, but i will support you in every act to have it played live.But yes,its like they copy lines of a history book.
Crimson Idol
Caveman
Lyrics make a large part of a song, and should never be ignored in discussion of a song itself. You could have the most beautifully haunting piece of music ever, but then throw lyrics about slaughtering deformed goats over the top and I doubt it will have quite the same appeal as it would with say something along the lines of a ballad.
Lyrics CAN ruin a song for me, they don't ruin ATG, but they certainly ruin Hooks in You - but that's just due to my personality. I do still find ATG's lyrics ludicrous but they don't make me cringe in the same way that HiY's do. As I have changed I have grown more distant from many songs/bands due to the subject matter more than anything, I listen to far less Motley Crue and even WASP (who I enjoy muchly) I barely listen to the early albums save the odd track.
Foreign lyrics are a tough one, there was the odd Rammstein track that I certainly couldn't enjoy the same once I translated them. On another note entirely though, it must be very odd for the songwriter because when translated it likely will lose all rhyme and become hard to fit to the melody.
I am certainly open for lyrical discussion, particularly as it is all food for thought when attempting to (hopefully) write own material - to see what people love and hate.
Lyrics CAN ruin a song for me, they don't ruin ATG, but they certainly ruin Hooks in You - but that's just due to my personality. I do still find ATG's lyrics ludicrous but they don't make me cringe in the same way that HiY's do. As I have changed I have grown more distant from many songs/bands due to the subject matter more than anything, I listen to far less Motley Crue and even WASP (who I enjoy muchly) I barely listen to the early albums save the odd track.
Foreign lyrics are a tough one, there was the odd Rammstein track that I certainly couldn't enjoy the same once I translated them. On another note entirely though, it must be very odd for the songwriter because when translated it likely will lose all rhyme and become hard to fit to the melody.
I am certainly open for lyrical discussion, particularly as it is all food for thought when attempting to (hopefully) write own material - to see what people love and hate.