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"Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise" - Victor Hugo

All my thoughts are with those in Paris tonight. No words can even begin to describe the events that unfurled last night.
 
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Fucking hell. I went to bed last night not knowing anything about this, log on my computer and goes to a newspaper website just to check the result of Bosnia vs Ireland. Then I read ... that.

Fucking hell.

Words fail me.
 
My goodness. When I went to bed last night, there was breaking news of a shooting in a Paris restaurant. I didn't expect to wake up to this...
 
This could easily have Berlin instead of Paris, and then I would have directly been affected on many levels. It's terrible to think about.
 
Indeed, for me this is part of what makes this despicable act of violence even more harrowing, the feeling it could and almost certainly will happen again in any European city in the near future.
 
I mean, this is the 2nd time in a month ISIS killed 100+ people in a capital. Ankara on October 10th, Paris on November 13th. It just might happen somewhere else. Fucking crazy.
 
It's scary yeah. Not saying it couldn't happen in any European capital but the risk is probably higher in the countries that actively intervene in Syria and Iraq with air strikes. From ISIS perspective they're trying to force/make Europe (to) not intervene in Syria...or as retaliation, (Therefor the attacks in Turkey, France, the Russian airplane...)

Intervening in Syria and Iraq:
United States
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Australia[1][2]
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Canada[3]
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France[4][5]
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Jordan[6]
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Morocco[7][8][9][10]
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United Kingdom[11][12][13]
Intervening in Iraq Only:
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Belgium[14]
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Denmark[15][16]
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Netherlands[17][18]
Intervening in Syria Only:
22px-Flag_of_Bahrain.svg.png
Bahrain
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Qatar
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Saudi Arabia
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Turkey[19][20]
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United Arab Emirates
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Russia
 
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It's really hard to keep my opinions to myself about how I feel about the matter. It goes without saying that I share my thoughts and sympathies with anyone affected by the attack, whether that be those directly involved, those who know anyone involved, or anyone in general hit hard by the attack. My dad actively wept today, and whilst I didn't, I can't blame him at all for it.

It's just sad that a concept such as religion, that aims to bring peace of mind and solidarity, directly influences people to commit these atrocities. I honestly think that the world would be a better place without it.
 
It's just sad that a concept such as religion, that aims to bring peace of mind and solidarity, directly influences people to commit these atrocities. I honestly think that the world would be a better place without it.

Eliminating religion wouldn't solve anything. The same people would hop on to something else. Nationalism, for example. Extremism happens for a reason.

What needs to be highlighted is science and education, or lack thereof. Christianity still exists in Europe but science and education are advanced and its extremism is pretty much irrelevant at the moment. Wasn't always the case. During Medieval times, Muslim nations were at their Golden Age, leading science while Christendom was in its dark ages, sinking in bigotry and extremism. Tables have turned. The difference is education, freedom and science. Not religion.
 
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You think that Muslim nations did not sink in bigotry and extremism in their Golden Age? (what do you define as Golden Age)?
 
Eliminating religion wouldn't solve anything. People would hop on to something else. Nationalism, for example. Extremism happens for a reason.

What needs to be highlighted is science and education, or lack thereof. Christianity still exists in Europe but science and education are advanced and its extremism is pretty much irrelevant at the moment. Wasn't always the case. During Medieval times, Muslim nations were at their Golden Age, leading science while Christendom was in its dark ages, sinking in bigotry and extremism. Tables have turned. The difference is education, freedom and science. Not religion.

People already hop onto nationalism though, regardless of their views concerning religion. It's not like nationalism isn't a problem. The difference between them both though is that nationalism comes very much from a core idea, but with religion, it's anything goes since it's very much open to interpretation. Remember when a head executioner from ISIS was decapitated for smoking a cigarette?

You do raise a valid point concerning the Muslim golden age, the Arabian empire being a fantastic example, dedicating themselves not to plunder or worldy wealth, but rather culture, society and science, using faith as their driving force. Religions did a huge amount back in times old to help people concerning education and shelter for those less fortunate. But as our society, technology and philosophy advanced, religion never did. Now the same options that only the churches, mosques etc provided are now provided regardless in the form of schools, shelters, charities and so forth, therefore the advantages that those services originally had are now obsolete. What's more, with that advancement, people saw religion as false hope and by extension, glorified cults that only served to move the world apart as opposed to bring it together. Religion now just accentuates the negatives it brings, such as denying basic human rights, promoting prejudice and fueling atrocities like the one in Paris yesterday. It's really come to a head this century that religion is serving as nothing more than counter-productive to our development as a race. And whilst I appreciate what it has done for people in the past, we have reached a point where we need to move on.

Also, just a disclaimer. I treat anyone who has a religious view equally as well as anyone who is not religious, or who is atheist or agnostic. I don't hate people who are religious, I hate the idea.
 
I don't hate religious people or the idea, I hate organized religion. If everyone believed in whatever they wanted instead of following a book / church leader, that'd be great.
 
I don't hate religious people or the idea, I hate organized religion. If everyone believed in whatever they wanted instead of following a book / church leader, that'd be great.

That's true, my beef lies much more with organized religions, and I still believe people should have the liberty to make a choice on the matter. I want my arguments to be based on rhetoric, rather than forcing people to change their opinion, I'd like to convince people to change their opinion.
 
"Some" (many, in fact) people like to believe in whatever they believe and visit a church/(other building, mosque whatever) to share that with others of the same belief. They can follow a book or leader. It can be entirely harmless, depending on what is said or followed (done). Depending on how tolerant a church is.

When people force religion upon others, who do not wish to have any of it, that is something else.
When people do not accept people of other believe, or people who do not believe what they believe.... then the shit hits the fan.
 
You think that Muslim nations did not sink in bigotry and extremism in their Golden Age? (what do you define as Golden Age)?

They didn't. They did have it but it was around as much as Christendom has now. Golden Age is not a subjective term, it's widely used. Islamic world led the scientific advances during Medieval times and Islam itself was a major reason why.
 
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All 3 major monotheistic religions have their roots in tribalism. Modern Judaism came together in the Babylonian captivity, as a means for their culture to survive. But they took their survival as a minority. Christians and Muslims also started out as minorities trying to survive, but their reaction was to dominate all others. That character never got out of any of the religions. This is why Christians and Muslims fall to extremism more often than Jews.
 
They didn't. They did have it but it was around as much as Christendom has now. Golden Age is not a subjective term, it's widely used. Islamic world led the scientific advances during Medieval times and Islam itself was a major reason why.
I am not sure what you are taught, but I believe you colour a too positive picture.

My nation had their "golden century" in the 17th. Look at the science and arts that happened back then. Magnificent. I can't imagine there wasn't any bigotry and extremism those days though.
 
"Some" (many, in fact) people like to believe in whatever they believe and visit a church/(other building, mosque whatever) to share that with others of the same belief. They can follow a book or leader. It can be entirely harmless, depending on what is said or followed (done). Depending on how tolerant a church is.
Yep. Should've added "blindly" following a book or a leader, that's what I meant.
 
I am not sure what you are taught, but I believe you colour a too positive picture.

My nation had their "golden century" in the 17th. Look at the science and arts that happened back then. Magnificent. I can't imagine there wasn't any bigotry and extremism those days though.

:nuts2: I never said there wasn't any extremism in Islamic Golden Age. You asked me if I thought that, and I answered with "They did have it but it was around as much as Christendom has now". There's extremism everywhere, but its relevancy is a different issue. If you think Islam was not a positive influence on science in the Medieval times, you're just not well informed. It absolutely was.

Islamic Golden Age is not a subjective term. It's a well established term. This has nothing to do with what I'm taught (Islamic Golden Age is not a part of the Turkish school curriculum) or what your country's golden age is. I have no incentive to defend Islam, I'm not a Muslim.
 
I'd probably say the Christian Dark Ages lasted from when the Roman Empire fell, to the rise of the European explorers, which by then, the conflict between Protestantism, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy were the primary problems the religion needed to overcome. Byzantium were the closest thing to a Christian power in that time span, and they were attacked from all sides by the Goths, the Persians, the Huns, African civilizations, even Venice took a shot at it during the Crusades. They had a target on their head since the Western Roman Empire fell. Strangely enough, the Ottomans conquered Constantinople just as the Europeans began to expand their empires.
 
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