ISIS Thread

I guess you see it differently and maybe there is some previous stuff I missed. I was just surprised at the reaction as I took it as Foro being critical of the same government that Flash is critical off, though for different reasons Sorry to bring it up,
 
Foro did not acknowledge Flash being critical of the government, though. He kept saying "your government" and "your country" in a way that sounded like he was addressing Flash as a guy having responsibility for it. Moreover, as I said, the posts were simply aggressively worded in the wrong time, hence tactless - and that's how Flash took it. I was talking more about form than content. The two are fighting. I'm not tolerating that.
 
I've gotten into several fights with my nationalist friends because of my support for the Kurdish fight against oppression. The assimilation policy against the Kurds is the main reason why I no longer call myself a Kemalist despite having been brought up to be one. I'm a Pro Kurdish individual who happens to not support a terrorist organization who, sadly, became the loudest, and quite frankly the only relevant voice against oppression of the Kurdish people. What's more saddening is that whatever advances the Kurdish people have made in the recent years have always been an outcome of the works of that terrorist organization. It's never been the peaceful negotiation that it should have been.

I'm just a guy asking for the well being of himself, his loved ones and follow countrymen, which involves our Kurdish population. All I'm doing is offering what I think is the reasonable things to do, after having lived, and still continuing to do so, right in the middle of it all. I'm 19 years old. We have conscription at the age of 20 in this country. It gets delayed if you're still at school. If a war breaks out they won't care that I'm studying. I'll be off to war fighting. And I don't want it to happen. I don't want to see Turkish nationalists and Kurdish nationalists fighting throughout the nation, either. I'm not a politician, I'm a guy who lives through it all and searches for solutions by following any significant detail. I started this thread before ISIS became a world-reknown thing. I was aware of its existence, its formation, its goals, its targets and its allies back in 2012. I was there, following the news while our government fed the Assad opposers with arms. I saw it all happen, I saw it coming. I never stopped criticising our government on this forum, knowing not a lot of people even cared about what happened in this country. I gave them shit for everything. I was, and still am, scared of my country becoming a part of the Middle East hellhole. Adding a forum fight about what me and my country is going through is the least of my interests. I'm glad it's, if it indeed is, over.
 
Last edited:
bearfan said:
I guess you see it differently and maybe there is some previous stuff I missed.
Click to expand...
There is, let's put it that way. The Mods are tired of seeing the sniping and the assumption of correctness. Either people will talk about it in a civil manner or they won't discuss it at all.
 
Everyone:

I think what Perun was getting at is that this discussion has become needlessly inflamed, and will improve if we discuss the actual topic without making unnecessary references to other members. This should be a debate about ISIS, not a fight between posters. So "the Turkish government" is preferable to "your government", because it is less confrontational and doesn't force anyone into a defensive position. From now on, just try to argue without personal attacks. This goes for everyone, regardless of whether or not you've done anything wrong in previous discussions. Keep it calm.
 
Perun said:
Foro did not acknowledge Flash being critical of the government, though. He kept saying "your government" and "your country" in a way that sounded like he was addressing Flash as a guy having responsibility for it.
Click to expand...

(about text in bold): Aha, is that it? I will try to take that into account.

I disagree somewhat about the timing. To mention things now (again), helps in my argument to show what is going on right now. To show who is the danger of this moment, and it relates to what the government will do now (and to what it has (not) done). This refers to my discussion with Flash. He calls me ignorant about certain things, while I try to stress other things. We zoom in at different aspects. That certainly leads to discussion.

I am aware that Flash is very much against lots of things the Turkish government has been doing. And I agree with lots of things he has mentioned.

EDIT:
I edited some text in red. I thought this is going a bit far. In no way, I find Flash responsible for what the government has (recently) done. I have read most, if not all, Flash's critical posts and it does not tell me that he supports (or even voted for) the current government.
 
Last edited:
Forostar said:
I am aware that Flash is very much against lots of things the Turkish government has been doing. And I agree with lots of things.
Click to expand...
If you do not acknowledge this in your posts, it seems very accusatory in English. I'm saying that as a native English speaker - making the difference clear is very important, otherwise it feels like you're lumping people in. I know you're not trying to - but remember, online I can't hear your voice or see your body language. So people will read tone into text and it's up to all of us to make sure we write in such a way that the tone is clearly how we intend it. Hence, why I started one of the above sentences with "I know you're not trying to".
 
Wouldn't it be best for everyone, both involved or not, if we could just move on from this instead of dwelling on it still?
 
Well, I want to get something of my back still because I have read a lot of accusations.

I think it plays a part THAT I disagree with Flash. I'll do my best about my tone, but I can't guarantee that we won't have angry reactions anymore. This is a sensitive topic. For some people more than for me.

I want to stress this because I think that this forum should be a place where we can have different opinions on matters.

So, to everyone who disagrees with me, better don't make it personal. When you're going to call me ignorant about something, only because you don't like what I say, then I am not the one who started a personal attack.
 
Forostar said:
I edited some text in red. I thought this is going a bit far. In no way, I find Flash responsible for what the government has (recently) done. I have read most, if not all, Flash's critical posts and it does not tell me that he supports (or even voted for) the current government.
Click to expand...

But you didn't say that. We can't know that you read what Flash said about it and acknowledge it if you don't say it. And Flash can't know it either. Hence, Flash will respond as if attacked if you only mention this part of the story.

My point is, these attacks are something that disturbed Flash, perhaps even hurt him, and all I'm asking here is to show a little bit of empathy instead of going straight out at having a go at "your government".

What I was saying has nothing to do about whether I agree or disagree with you, but about how you said what you said and how the one you said it to felt about it.
 
Forostar said:
When you're going to call me ignorant about something, only because you don't like what I say, then I am not the one who started a personal attack.
Click to expand...
What if you're actually ignorant? I think that we can agree that you don't hold all knowledge, so the moderators will judge who starts it.

And we will finish it.
 
Perhaps you judge wrong LC. I do not post all the knowledge that I know. Maybe mods are wrong in calling someone ignorant (too soon).

I hope I still can be angry about matters in countries I do not live in. I really find it going a bit far if I am not allowed to have an (angry) opinionon matters that have to do with human rights.

I'll try to have more tact, but if someone is very sensitive about matters because he lives in the country that is discussed, then I don't think it is that logical that all the others have to walk on their toes.

I'll leave this topic now to calm down a bit.
 
Forostar said:
I hope I still can be angry about matters in countries I do not live in. I really find it going a bit far if I am not allowed to have an (angry) opinionon matters that have to do with human rights.
Click to expand...

All I was ever talking about was tone, not content. Not the validity of opinion, but about the way it is being expressed. Frankly, I don't care if we're talking about IS, the Kurds, Turkey or Santa Claus at this point. It's not what is being said. It's how it is being said.

I'm sorry all this infuriated you. That was not the intention. My original moderation post was intended to be an understanding way to explain to both parties what went wrong. I will re-evaluate my moderation techniques to achieve better results in the future.
 
I have to agree with Foro here, I think this flareup over your government versus replacing your with Turkish is a bit much. The government of whatever country you live in is your government. I would think and hope people would have enough common sense to understand that everyone that lives in a country does not lock-step support every (or any) action of their government.


Edit: I do understand the mods are trying to diffuse a situation, this is not a criticism of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top