Iron Maiden Survivor 2013: Results Thread - Hallowed reclaims the throne!
- Thread starter Mosh
- Start date
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
One can only hope....
Saapanael
Ancient Mariner
Most of the song is "the instumental part" which is amazing. Many great melodies and solos. My only beef with the song is that the vocal parts sound a bit weird with that rhythm. My favourite is the clean guitar section at the beginning and the end.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
The whole song is awesome. Victim of general apathy for songs from the nineties that they have not seen live.
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Crimson Idol
Caveman
Or perhaps people just don't like it? Or even just don't like it as much as other songs.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
It just has no Adrian Smith. It just was never seen live. It just was not featured on any other release than No Prayer for Dying. It just had nada exposure compared to many other songs. I believe that these factors count, or at least its combination.
That is just a deadly combination to people who prefer songs by the current line-up, who prefer songs they have seen live, or prefer songs with Adrian Smith.
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Ah well: It landed at number 22, that is not as bad as I expected.
That is just a deadly combination to people who prefer songs by the current line-up, who prefer songs they have seen live, or prefer songs with Adrian Smith.
edit:
Ah well: It landed at number 22, that is not as bad as I expected.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
That's just one of the factors.
Then how come you like it so much?
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I'll give it a try. It is lengthy but I don't know if is a good explanation.
I think it's in my case also a combination of factors. Taste is a very individual thing but I believe that it can be influenced, shaped by outside factors. By impressions, by course and length of time, by circumstances, by what we find important, by norms and values, by other music and even by people...
I don't know if I can explain why I like a certain melody or atmosphere. I am not sure how that works. But I can try to describe elements that I like, and my personal circumstances, and moments in time.
I became a fan in the autumn of 1991. I have heard the album with Mother Russia in a time before I ever saw Maiden live. I was positively surprised because after hearing Holy Smoke and Bring Your Daughter I hadn't expected there would be such different (and better) material on the album. I even waited with buying the album some time after Fear of the Dark came out.
I have heard the album in a time when there was not as much other musical "distraction" besides pop music. No older brothers or sisters with a record collection (my parents record collection wasn't heavy), no internet, and the only CD's I had were Maiden CD's. I knew a couple of Priest LP's and I'd heard some Kiss and GNR albums, and I was just about getting into Helloween.
Maybe these conditions gave me more focus on the (certainly compared by today's standards) little collection I had. I could focus on everything Maiden had done. I had fun with play the same albums over and over again. These days I am in a very different phase. I prefer to spend my time on albums by different bands, and genres. (So that makes it more difficult to appreciate new Maiden).
Before this album, I had heard all the eigthies albums and also was in love with the video/concert footage from Live After Death, Maiden England, The First 10 Years & 12 Wasted Years. At that time No Prayer wasn't as good to me as the previous albums. I noticed Bruce sang with a rougher voice, and the songs were also grittier. But were they bad? No. On the contrary, I still liked them, and some of them a lot.
Nowadays I like the album more than the ones with Di'Anno and The Number of the Beast and also even a bit more than Piece of Mind.
I am afraid that originality is something that I am bothered about, more often than most other members. That explains that when I hear recent Maiden, I recognize things from previous albums, so I tend to give "extra" credit to older songs, or less credit to newer ones, it depends on the way you look at it. ;-) The more albums Maiden released since No Prayer, the more difficult it became for them to stay original (in my eyes). So the chronology could play a part as well.
Like everyone out here, I also see the enthusiasm by the current line-up, I love Bruce these days, I love Adrian, love the rest. But I do not think that all their recent records are (much) better than some albums from the nineties. And some of the epic songs in the nineties were IMO really bulls eye material.
Mother Russia is my second favourite song of the nineties (The Unbeliever comes first). Overall, it's in my top 15 and from this remaining bunch only beaten by Powerslave, Rime, CSIT, SSOASS and Infinite Dreams.
What do I like so much about the song?
I like the lyrics. I find it special to hear an epic, bombastic song with a rich instrumental part squeezed into Bruce questioning some real questions that had to do with the current, real world. Maiden did that more often, but this was a first. The line "Can you be happy now you're people are free" is dead on, and more than years later, we can still ask this. And we can wonder how free the people really are. I find human rights important. In Russia minorities have not so much rights. There is no freedom of press. People who sing a protestsong can go to prison. Opposition has a hard time. Even though that line was sung in a time when the USSR started to loose power (and when people indeed might have had more freedom of some sort), nowadays I find that Russia has become a police state. So the topic is something vital to me.
The intro has a nice melody with pauses. Fascinating to hear these sudden parts with short moments of silence in between blowing out of the speakers.
It sounds so mysterious and at the same time so much in your face. And this Eastern vibe, maybe Russian (not sure where this "mode" comes from) I find particularly attractive. The beginning of the instrumental mid piece uses the same figure, with some awesome keyboards and distortion guitars reminiscent of black metal(!) in the background. A neat cold touch. There are different moods. One of the more emotional parts are the dramatic guitar lines right before the solos. A very majestic song, well suited for three guitars.
Maybe this song stood out so much on No Prayer, because it had the bombast of the previous title track (a song I like more). Not original? Well, maybe indeed, musically Seventh Son of a Seventh Son served as an example. But the melodies are different, and lots of its rhythms are as well. It is really a different ride. And the keyboards are used in a different way (and also sound different).
I regret that I have said that people have apathy towards the nineties. I should not have said that. But I honestly think that the era disappeared in almost unpenetrable smoke, created by the fire of the successful eighties and the magic of the current line-up that still tours with so much joy. Sometimes I just think that the nineties are liked less because they were different. Different line-up, different sound, and nowadays: a different exposure.
I really think that people do pay attention to these things. I cannot prove that all you guys are doing it so I should not have said what I said in my previous post. I apologize for that...
Lots of fans (especially in the States) who followed Maiden since the eighties turned their back at the band and came out of their holes when Adrian and Bruce rejoined (some found out a few laters even, totally disregarding everything Maiden was doing). Also many "new" fans (1999-) dislike the nineties. The fact that Maiden mostly ignores this period (as far as they're concerned the nineties didn't exist; only the song Fear of the Dark and Afraid to Shoot Strangers exists) hasn't helped much.
I have seen the nineties without that smoke. I have seen Maiden performing nineties songs with fire in their eyes. I have learned to appreciate Iron Maiden without Adrian Smith. In the nineties I loved him from his work in the eighties but I realized he was doing other things "nowadays". What Maiden did without him, I still found good (same with The X-Factor: I was not blinded by Bruce's absence). So I didn't miss him on the albums. On the contrary, I understood that he wanted to do other stuff and one of the worst songs on the No Prayer-album had a Smith co-credit.
(When I am saying this I realize that I can also not listen to recent Maiden without context of older music. But at least it's the music, and I am not thinking about other people)
I have never seen Mother Russia though. Until this day it is cast in pure studio magic.
I think it's in my case also a combination of factors. Taste is a very individual thing but I believe that it can be influenced, shaped by outside factors. By impressions, by course and length of time, by circumstances, by what we find important, by norms and values, by other music and even by people...
I don't know if I can explain why I like a certain melody or atmosphere. I am not sure how that works. But I can try to describe elements that I like, and my personal circumstances, and moments in time.
I became a fan in the autumn of 1991. I have heard the album with Mother Russia in a time before I ever saw Maiden live. I was positively surprised because after hearing Holy Smoke and Bring Your Daughter I hadn't expected there would be such different (and better) material on the album. I even waited with buying the album some time after Fear of the Dark came out.
I have heard the album in a time when there was not as much other musical "distraction" besides pop music. No older brothers or sisters with a record collection (my parents record collection wasn't heavy), no internet, and the only CD's I had were Maiden CD's. I knew a couple of Priest LP's and I'd heard some Kiss and GNR albums, and I was just about getting into Helloween.
Maybe these conditions gave me more focus on the (certainly compared by today's standards) little collection I had. I could focus on everything Maiden had done. I had fun with play the same albums over and over again. These days I am in a very different phase. I prefer to spend my time on albums by different bands, and genres. (So that makes it more difficult to appreciate new Maiden).
Before this album, I had heard all the eigthies albums and also was in love with the video/concert footage from Live After Death, Maiden England, The First 10 Years & 12 Wasted Years. At that time No Prayer wasn't as good to me as the previous albums. I noticed Bruce sang with a rougher voice, and the songs were also grittier. But were they bad? No. On the contrary, I still liked them, and some of them a lot.
Nowadays I like the album more than the ones with Di'Anno and The Number of the Beast and also even a bit more than Piece of Mind.
I am afraid that originality is something that I am bothered about, more often than most other members. That explains that when I hear recent Maiden, I recognize things from previous albums, so I tend to give "extra" credit to older songs, or less credit to newer ones, it depends on the way you look at it. ;-) The more albums Maiden released since No Prayer, the more difficult it became for them to stay original (in my eyes). So the chronology could play a part as well.
Like everyone out here, I also see the enthusiasm by the current line-up, I love Bruce these days, I love Adrian, love the rest. But I do not think that all their recent records are (much) better than some albums from the nineties. And some of the epic songs in the nineties were IMO really bulls eye material.
Mother Russia is my second favourite song of the nineties (The Unbeliever comes first). Overall, it's in my top 15 and from this remaining bunch only beaten by Powerslave, Rime, CSIT, SSOASS and Infinite Dreams.
What do I like so much about the song?
I like the lyrics. I find it special to hear an epic, bombastic song with a rich instrumental part squeezed into Bruce questioning some real questions that had to do with the current, real world. Maiden did that more often, but this was a first. The line "Can you be happy now you're people are free" is dead on, and more than years later, we can still ask this. And we can wonder how free the people really are. I find human rights important. In Russia minorities have not so much rights. There is no freedom of press. People who sing a protestsong can go to prison. Opposition has a hard time. Even though that line was sung in a time when the USSR started to loose power (and when people indeed might have had more freedom of some sort), nowadays I find that Russia has become a police state. So the topic is something vital to me.
The intro has a nice melody with pauses. Fascinating to hear these sudden parts with short moments of silence in between blowing out of the speakers.
It sounds so mysterious and at the same time so much in your face. And this Eastern vibe, maybe Russian (not sure where this "mode" comes from) I find particularly attractive. The beginning of the instrumental mid piece uses the same figure, with some awesome keyboards and distortion guitars reminiscent of black metal(!) in the background. A neat cold touch. There are different moods. One of the more emotional parts are the dramatic guitar lines right before the solos. A very majestic song, well suited for three guitars.
Maybe this song stood out so much on No Prayer, because it had the bombast of the previous title track (a song I like more). Not original? Well, maybe indeed, musically Seventh Son of a Seventh Son served as an example. But the melodies are different, and lots of its rhythms are as well. It is really a different ride. And the keyboards are used in a different way (and also sound different).
I regret that I have said that people have apathy towards the nineties. I should not have said that. But I honestly think that the era disappeared in almost unpenetrable smoke, created by the fire of the successful eighties and the magic of the current line-up that still tours with so much joy. Sometimes I just think that the nineties are liked less because they were different. Different line-up, different sound, and nowadays: a different exposure.
I really think that people do pay attention to these things. I cannot prove that all you guys are doing it so I should not have said what I said in my previous post. I apologize for that...
Lots of fans (especially in the States) who followed Maiden since the eighties turned their back at the band and came out of their holes when Adrian and Bruce rejoined (some found out a few laters even, totally disregarding everything Maiden was doing). Also many "new" fans (1999-) dislike the nineties. The fact that Maiden mostly ignores this period (as far as they're concerned the nineties didn't exist; only the song Fear of the Dark and Afraid to Shoot Strangers exists) hasn't helped much.
I have seen the nineties without that smoke. I have seen Maiden performing nineties songs with fire in their eyes. I have learned to appreciate Iron Maiden without Adrian Smith. In the nineties I loved him from his work in the eighties but I realized he was doing other things "nowadays". What Maiden did without him, I still found good (same with The X-Factor: I was not blinded by Bruce's absence). So I didn't miss him on the albums. On the contrary, I understood that he wanted to do other stuff and one of the worst songs on the No Prayer-album had a Smith co-credit.
(When I am saying this I realize that I can also not listen to recent Maiden without context of older music. But at least it's the music, and I am not thinking about other people)
I have never seen Mother Russia though. Until this day it is cast in pure studio magic.
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Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Ariana
Black-and-white leopard
This is the only thing I dislike about this song.
I dare call myself an old fan of Maiden and I never had issues with originality. A good song is a good song and I don't care about the lineup or where the track fits chronologically. Luckily, there are still songs growing on me from any Maiden era, so I'm a happy fan.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
Not a whole lot of things that I hate more than that "Too Long Didn't Read" thing. The guy (Foro, in this case) takes time to post something he thinks will be valuable to the conversation then a disrespectful response comes his way. I know it's intended as a joke, but still.
You might see me like I've been pushing your buttons lately, Black Wizard, but that was just a general opinion.
You might see me like I've been pushing your buttons lately, Black Wizard, but that was just a general opinion.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I tend to associate a lot in general. And over the years it has become a big deal with me in music as well. I become more strict in what I like, but at the same time I don't have a small music collection.
I praise myself lucky for having had the opportunity to live the nineties albums.
I praise myself lucky for having had the opportunity to live the nineties albums.
That's the best thing you can wish for!Luckily, there are still songs growing on me from any Maiden era, so I'm a happy fan.
Oh dear, I'm not sure if that's the kind of response I expected from you, mate. My point was more that you argue with the logic of exposure or outside circumstances, and in your post, you made it seem like a universal rule. I wanted to hear from you how all that applies to everybody except you.
I think it's unfair to try and rationalise when somebody does not like something you like. I like the song, but I think it is very far from being their best - and I have my reasons for that. What I don't like about it is that it sounds a bit rushed and restless and can't properly construct the epic feel that it wants, and I don't like the lyrics. Other than that, it's a good song, and I like to listen to it. I have not listened to it any more or less than most other Maiden songs, so I think my opinion of the song is not formed by any outside factors.
I think it's unfair to try and rationalise when somebody does not like something you like. I like the song, but I think it is very far from being their best - and I have my reasons for that. What I don't like about it is that it sounds a bit rushed and restless and can't properly construct the epic feel that it wants, and I don't like the lyrics. Other than that, it's a good song, and I like to listen to it. I have not listened to it any more or less than most other Maiden songs, so I think my opinion of the song is not formed by any outside factors.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I hoped I could explain that. I did experience this era different from everybody else, also from Ariana.*
I didn't mean to be unfair. I was explaining how I experienced it, but I also mentioned that taste is individual and some of it, inexplicable.
* of course I do not mean to say that everybody who experienced it like me, still has to like Mother Russia or the nineties more than others. But all these factors could have provided more room for more appreciation.
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Crimson Idol
Caveman
Personally I enjoy the instrumental parts but the verses bug me, the ending feels like it just sort of appears abruptly too. I still think it's a good song, but it's far from my favourite. However I, nor any other, should have to explain why - tastes are what they are.
As with Ariana I don't really care where in their chronology a song appears, if I like it I like it that's all that matters. Even if it has similarities to a previous song they have done, doesn't really matter, if that riff fits better in the new song then great! Originality within their own catalogue is not quite so important to me as long as it's not blatant repetition. However, the comments about chronology actually imply Foro that while you feel everyone else is prejudiced against the 90's (even though a large amount of us discovered all their music in one go, so time of release meant nothing at all) you yourself are more prejudiced against things that came/come later because they have less chance of being 'original'. Whereas you feel other people are biased against it, from my perspective others are indifferent to it due to discovering later and in bulk, whereas the fact you experienced this era differently to other people gives you a bias TOWARDS it.
Meh, I'm not a fan of TXF. I can't explain why (and it isn't Blaze, as I enjoy his solo stuff).
As with Ariana I don't really care where in their chronology a song appears, if I like it I like it that's all that matters. Even if it has similarities to a previous song they have done, doesn't really matter, if that riff fits better in the new song then great! Originality within their own catalogue is not quite so important to me as long as it's not blatant repetition. However, the comments about chronology actually imply Foro that while you feel everyone else is prejudiced against the 90's (even though a large amount of us discovered all their music in one go, so time of release meant nothing at all) you yourself are more prejudiced against things that came/come later because they have less chance of being 'original'. Whereas you feel other people are biased against it, from my perspective others are indifferent to it due to discovering later and in bulk, whereas the fact you experienced this era differently to other people gives you a bias TOWARDS it.
Meh, I'm not a fan of TXF. I can't explain why (and it isn't Blaze, as I enjoy his solo stuff).